The American dream didn't die.

That makes it sound like a natural event.

Like it was inevitable.

Here's the truth:

It was fucking murdered.

By greedy, unchecked corporations, bought and paid for politicians, and every coked-up asshole on Wall Street.

@forthy42 You can also get extremely wealthy from inventing something or writing or creating art, none of which requires exploitation. All of which are required for a healthy society. Capitalism needs regulated but it’s dishonest & simplistic to reduce it like you just did & it dilutes your legitimate argument. There are also still very real class & race barriers in every country, some worse than here, that are as exclusionary as capitalism, that also need to be overcome. @Daojoan

@Pineywoozle

Inventions and creative work don't spontaneously turn into money. You have to either sell the rights for a lot of money or set up production and distribution channels.

Either way it takes a lot of pre-existing wealth and a partner in the position to exploit others.

@forthy42

@magitweeter Nope. I’ve personaly seen it done thru hard work and sacrifice. No big wealth, no exploitive distribution. Your ideas are simplistic, jingoistic BS. Selling isn’t automatically exploitive neither is production. @forthy42

@Pineywoozle

Okay. If you'd like to share the details then i'll be willing to concede that invention and creative work can make one wealthy without exploitation.

@magitweeter I’m an artist, I create beautiful jewelry, if my goal was wealth , there are 1,000s of stores that would purchase them thru direct contact. I choose to focus on creation rather than spending my time contacting more than I do & then having to employ workers to supply them. My cousin, worked hard, bootstrapped a company & invented some VPN software, paid his employees well to produce copies, millions of which were sold at a reasonable price. No exploitation, no wealth funding.

@magitweeter @Pineywoozle

You could make enough jewelry on your own to stock 1,000s of stores?

@HeavenlyPossum I clearly said I would have to employ people if I wanted to sell to more store than I currently do. @magitweeter

@Pineywoozle @magitweeter

So to collect all that revenue, you could only do it through the cooperation of many people contributing their labor?

If that’s the case—if that revenue is only available when someone else labors—it seems like it’s at least as much *their* hard work, and thus not clear why any one person should be able to become wealthier than anyone else participating in that collaborative effort.

@HeavenlyPossum They don’t do the same labor. They didn’t design it, find a buyer or study for yrs, living on far less than they make while working more. They get paid in accordance to their input. For every hour they spend producing my design, I’ve spent thousands getting to the point of being able to create it, source materials and a buyer. If they lived as frugally as most artists do for decades, worked double time & put that aside they’d have an equivalent amount of “wealth”@magitweeter

@Pineywoozle

«Thousands»? For each hour of theirs? Seriously?

Let's say they work a week for you, 40 hours. That means you've done the equivalent of some multiple of 40 thousand hours of work throughout that same week?

That's an absurdity.

@HeavenlyPossum

@magitweeter Is English not your first language? I said over decades, not that same week. @HeavenlyPossum

@Pineywoozle

You also said «for every hour». That implies some kind of proportionality. Like every hour of their present effort multiplies the value of your past effort rather than adding to it.

I think it's very telling that you value your past effort in the thousands of hours while calling the present effort of laborers “just labor” worth only a fraction of yours.

It makes me suspect that whatever wage you had in mind would not be a “good” wage for their effort.

@HeavenlyPossum

@magitweeter That’s you misinterpreting what I said. Never said or implied that their labor was worth a fraction of mine. I stated that they have done a fraction of what I’ve done. II’ve put in thousands of hours both in labor, creativity in hours of designing & study to be able to create. They put in far less hours. Their labor isn’t worth less than my labor but they contribute far less & are compensated for what they put in. I suspect your snide last remark gets you a block . @HeavenlyPossum

@Pineywoozle

Your language reveals that you undervalue the contribution of your laborers relative to yours.

Having someone work for you whose contribution you undervalue is called exploitation.

Precisely the thing you said was unnecessary for building wealth.

Good luck with your enterprises, and may you continue to avoid exploiting others in pursuit of wealth.

@HeavenlyPossum

@magitweeter That’s not remotely what my words say but it is what you have been trying your damndest over & over to make it seem like. Twisting and misconstruing and generally being dishonest as well as just out right unpleasant. May you grow and figure out that it’s possible to have a discussion in a respectful manner. @HeavenlyPossum