forestinea friend made a tiktok about ai art being the garbage it is and got this angry reply from an ai art bro that said "i hope you lose your art job over this"
WHAT ART JOB? do you think artists are out here making money?
there is this real bitterness about these people who say they don't need artists anymore, they can make art for themselves.
it's like the kind of person who thinks they have an amazing idea and wants to do you a favour by letting you help realize it for them.
Mark JohnsonIn Pratchett's Thief of Time, the Auditors of Reality grind down artwork in the museum to find out what makes it art. But all they can find are pigments and binder. And they are SO ANGRY.
This is what these AI art people remind me of. They really don't understand what makes art special and are angry that they don't have it.
i'm muting notifications now but my takeaway is that fedi
a) hates ai
b) loves pratchett
a) hates ai
b) loves pratchett
also this wasn't about whether ai art is art or not. i'm not arguing that. that argument is boring and beside the point of it being a theft machine that sucks. it started when i was wondering why people are so hostile to artists. okay cool.
Abraxas3d W5NYV@forestine thank you for stating it so clearly.
LLM and other attempts to shortcut from whims to results just do not close the gap between the wanting and the producing.
Things worth doing (or reading, or drawing, or composing) are rarely easy.
AI/ML doesn't remove the human. It can make the research phase and syntax phase easier.
Substituting the literature search for the final form is a rookie mistake.
Tom Magnanimous@forestine and they're determined to punish the people doing the thing they can't. Little bit of Harrison Bergeron to it too.
Purple@funkula @forestine That is very typical for mediocre people.
Zeugs@forestine
It's a good analogy especially if you think about writers strike.
Hollywood administration was told by AI-Bro's they can create movie scripts with GenAI.
"Can't be that hard why pay a high share to them. We are powerful, we don't need writers."
Writers won this Battle.
In my perception:
it's the administration vs the "creatives".
The administration has the advantage that it's highly organized and has lots of Money. The see themselfs "Masters of reality" like the auditors.
Rev. Bussy Body of The Church of America MLM and Shooting Club@Zeugs @forestine this is the first time i've seen the term "creatives" used as a noun like that where i didn't *quite* flinch at the art-snobbery pretentiousness of it
i suspect it's because the framing tends to make it more a subset of "worker" here (as opposed to a know-nothing class of investors and bosses) than a superior illuminati class (as opposed to a supposed know-nothing class of workers)
i suspect it's because the framing tends to make it more a subset of "worker" here (as opposed to a know-nothing class of investors and bosses) than a superior illuminati class (as opposed to a supposed know-nothing class of workers)
robcorneliusIf one more person (actually its 99% men) says "AI can do everything." to me I will not be held responsible for my actions.
I have to sit through a "MS Co-pilot can write software for us" presentation tomorrow. Wish me luck.
Guitarsophist@forestine The AI says, "But why can't a human have three legs? It's art!"
Jennifer Kayla | Theogrin 🦊If only we could confuse more AI art people with a sign that says, "Please don't notice the elephant."
These are also folks who think that just because there is in the universe no atom of justice, no molecule of mercy, that they're free to do as they choose...
⁂ Fish Id Wardrobe@theogrin @forestine or by throwing them chocolates.
Chloé Raccoon@forestine @PetraPhoenix I feel one of the other parts they don't get is some people aren't after "art" as an investment. I'm a fur, I want art of _me_. It has no value to someone else. But do I want to pay _that_ artist to make it because of their style and who they are? Damn right. I don't want art that looks like <artist>'s, I want my art _by_ <artist>.
@chloeraccoon @PetraPhoenix yeah. like you're after art that you see yourself in, that also is made by that artist. i want to make and experience art that makes people feel things. they want an investment.
@forestine @PetraPhoenix Agreed. I feel it's one of the few things we have left where the money isn't the object. Sure, its often involved, but doesn't have to be the driving force.
Astra@forestine i'm in a weird limbo where I have no artistic ability, i really want to learn but I don't know how so i turn to AI art for just quick visual representations of what i'm thinking, but like not calling it art etc
is that moral?
is that moral?
Bunnytown 💜⁷
Cybarbie@forestine They look at art and feel nothing. They like the colors or the draughtsmanship but they don't get it. I find it fascinating that AI cannot produce art, music or anything really that requires the self. That lean in bit of yourself, that essence. And how can it? It has no self. We can see it on a canvas, or in a song because it moves us. AI can do rote work icons, thumbnails, not real art. I do not think it ever will replace artists. When it can it will be sentient and have a life.
FoolishOwl@forestine I keep thinking about logical empiricism. Broadly, it was a school of philosophy with the project of finding the logical underpinnings of language. It ran into all sorts of difficulties. Ludwig Wittgenstein, in particular, came to the conclusion it was a dead end. The mind is not a structure of logical tokens. That's just language. Minds precede language, precede tokens.
"AI" just reverts to the long discredited idea that if we look really hard at tokens, we'll create minds.
Charles 𝄢 HComputer languages do revive the idea of constructing a formal, logical language without ambiguity and I'm wondering how much the earlier philosophical thought has fed into programming language construction.
Wokebloke for Democracy@forestine
It's always something on Discworld.
It's always something on Discworld.
Dirk Hohndel
Eric LawtonThe Oxford Dictionary has it right.
"art [mass noun] the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power"
If it's not made by creative skill and imagination, it's just bits on a disk.
Festering Ferret@forestine I decided to test an AI's creativity recently, so I told it to create a surreal picture of three random objects. All it could do was a still life. Which really just reminded me of that line from Short Circuit: "It's a computer. It doesn't get happy, it doesn't get sad. It just runs programs."
Martin Seeger@forestine It is a correct statement. It would be even more damming for the field of AI if not the same could be said for 95+% of the artists and their critics.
Disclosures: I would count myself among those 95+%.
Toni Widmo@forestine I happen to be re-reading that very book right now. This time out loud to my spouse @dana
We have been working through the entire discworld series this way and that is the exact book we are up to.
The auditors are the scariest concept Pratchett ever came up with. Far worse than the dungeon dimensions.
We have been working through the entire discworld series this way and that is the exact book we are up to.
The auditors are the scariest concept Pratchett ever came up with. Far worse than the dungeon dimensions.
mags amond
TwentySidedCat@forestine what a fantastic reference! Agreed!
Many Colors, Many Forms, Many Flavors, Maybe More
Alec Muffett+++ OUT OF CHEESE ERROR +++ REDO FROM START +++
Having written an artificial intelligence into his own books, I don't think Terry would be against the actual technology of course; but he would (as you note) castigate people who gatekeep.
Hex
Hex is an elaborate, Heath Robinson/Rube Goldberg-esque, magic-powered computer housed at Unseen University (UU) in the city of Ankh-Morpork, in author Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. The main structure works through the movements of large numbers of ants through the complex pipes and tubing which make up the main quantity of Hex's infrastructure. Hex is a computer unlike any other the Disc has ever seen (which is not particularly hard since all other 'computers' on the Disc consist of...
Ω 🌍 Gus Posey@forestine Infinite boost.
Kevin Russell
Chris Who@forestine Or I just wanted to see a picture of a dinosaur having a mai-tai and didn't want to pay $100 just to see that.
The Auditors weren't evil because they wanted to find ground happiness in the art, they were evil because they wanted to eliminate anything that wasn't like them from existence.
I'm a person who can't draw, and I can't afford the cost of a dedicated artist. Should my website with AI graphics that is open about where the pictures came from just not exist?
@stationkeeper when you play with it you legitimize the stealing machine and also the fact that it is using so many resources, like water. personally, i feel that it's not moral to play with it, even if you're not selling it.
my thread is specifically trying to figure out why many ai art people are incredibly hostile towards artists. and i didn't say the auditors were trying to find happiness.
have a nice day
@forestine The example you used of the Auditors from "Thief of Time" was one where, in the book, they are trying to find the intangibles that make it art, so it's an apt comparison.
The computer you're on has elements that we most likely mined by kids, some of whom died. Same with your phone.
We're all trying to find our way through moral quagmires. Less sancrimoniousness and more diologue is probably more helpful, and certainly better for understanding each other.
@stationkeeper i didn't say people had to be perfect. you're putting a lot of words in my mouth. please go make your shitty art elsewhere
@forestine i don't know who;s seeing boosts of this post that needs to read this, but: https://perfors.net/blog/creation-ai/
