ChopFeb 22, 2024

#Phish Mexico 2024 #Ranked

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N1 Wednesday

Sure, there were a few exciting moments and the make-up (quickie) sex of the last four songs. But overall a fairly uninspired set with fairly uninspired play. The good news is this is par for the course when the band tries to play a single-set show, and the next 3 nights are all standard two-setters.

Show threadChopFeb 23, 2024

#Phish Mexico 2024 #Ranked

N2 Thursday
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N1 Wednesday

The only question about last night’s ranking is best show since ___? This assumes you put an asterisk on NYE.

Add up the improv, factor in the quality of the WoH, throw in no S2 downtime & I’m putting it ahead of anything from 2023. This includes the Greek Tweezer->Simple show and all the MSGs. It’s probably better than anything from 2022 though I’ve blocked most memories from those tours. Maybe Shoreline21? A masterpiece.

Show threadChopFeb 24, 2024

#Phish Mexico 2024 #Ranked

N2 Thursday
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N3 Friday
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N1 Wednesday

I need to relisten to a few versions, but I’d be shocked if last night isn’t the 🐐 CDT—which is incredible given how many legendary versions there are.

Best back-to-back shows since Shoreline 21, and I bet that band sounds like ass vs this one.

One of the best shows of 4.0, and it pains me to put it below a <gap>, but it just doesn’t have the horsepower to keep up with Thursday despite the superior Q1.

Show threadJustin BruceFeb 24, 2024
@chopaganda I think it’s undeniably and instantly the 🐐 CDT. after a couple big 2023 efforts, they hit a grand slam.
Show threadChopFeb 24, 2024
@justinbruce I need to do IT, Dick’s 2013, and Hollywood Bowl 23. Trying to think of there are others on the shortlist. Already tossed out Baker’s.
Show threadRyan Storm
@chopaganda @justinbruce lol @ thinking BD is below all three of those
Feb 25, 2024 at 4:35amWeb
Show threadChopFeb 25, 2024
@ry_storm @justinbruce Never said it was below those. Just that I tossed it out bc I’ve listened to it recently enough. Settle down, Beavis.
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@chopaganda @ry_storm @justinbruce

Hot take: Phish hasn’t played an elite 30+ minute jam with real flow, cohesiveness, hose, and musical substance since the 12-30-19 Tweezer. Where all 4 members are contributing to a sum greater than its individual parts. There have been a few great 20ish minute jams (Deercreek Simple 21, MSG AWOH 23, etc) but there aren’t many of those either. They’ve been more adventurous lately but the real musical substance just isn’t there IMO #phish

Show threadRyan StormFeb 25, 2024
@Bandino @chopaganda @justinbruce I didn’t realize you were still on the internet
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@ry_storm @chopaganda @justinbruce

Nobody leaves the internet buddy. Also, I muted your incessant fluffing on Twitter--didn’t realize you were also Fluffstadon 🤣

Show threadBrad SolariFeb 25, 2024
@Bandino @chopaganda @ry_storm @justinbruce I know you have a reputation to uphold as being in the one percent of the 1 percent club of fans who think 21-24 sucks, but you just sound silly at this point. You may want to consider hanging up the headphones my man. 🤣
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@vriphish76 @chopaganda @ry_storm @justinbruce

I wouldn’t say it sucks, even though I throw that word around as part of my trolling instinct. 😂. I guess I just mean overrated or mediocre. It’s all relative I suppose. But I’d take the highlights of 2016-2019 over 21-24 any day--although there have only been two 24 shows so we’ll see what happens...I’m excited for the Sphere and MondeGreen

Show threadRyan StormFeb 25, 2024
@Bandino @vriphish76 @chopaganda @justinbruce L O L
Show threadJustin BruceFeb 25, 2024
@ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 @chopaganda to have a take this hot, and spit it with this confidence, earns my respect. I think we’re in halcyon phish days and am here to enjoy it while it lasts, but to each their own.
Show threadChopFeb 25, 2024
@justinbruce @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 While I mostly disagree with Bandummy, I will say that so many of the big 4.0 jams lack replay value compared to previous eras. Like the Wave of Hope was downright thrilling in the moment, but I’ve now played it twice and can see never listening to it again because it doesn’t have the kind of sustained “4 playing as 1” segment that most of my favorite jams have.
Show threadJustin BruceFeb 25, 2024
@chopaganda @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 I’ll have to give it spin #3 and see how it goes, but agree that the “hive mind” of AWOH was reserved for the last section. Whereas the CDT had it out the gate. Hive mind vs. good band interplay is something I’m trying to pay attention to this year, as carryover from sussing out last year’s JOTYs.
Show threadChopFeb 25, 2024
@justinbruce @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 I wish I could put my finger on it. So many 4.0 jams are like all four of them riding a wave with a push and pull between 2/3/4 at various moments. It’s incredible and thrilling in the moment. But it doesn’t have the same replay value for me as 1.0, 2.0, or even 2012-15.
Show threadJustin BruceFeb 25, 2024
@chopaganda @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 there’s a part of me that thinks that 4.0 #phish is more about the process of improvisation and the mechanisms of interplay than achieving a singular melodic result, which i find to be #1 fascinating and engaging, but #2 less ear-wormy than their earlier and simpler output. Feels like a necessary and natural extension for a band this deep into a career who’s not retreading their greatest hits, so to speak. 🤷
Show threadLost ReflectorFeb 25, 2024
@justinbruce @chopaganda @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 it's the evolution of a conversation that started over forty years ago where the most impressive part to me is that they still have interesting things to say. Yes they recycle bits but think of yukking it up with old friends and how often an old anecdote spurs the laughter to greater heights. And there is deeper conversation than before because of the benefit of age and experience and knowing so well how your friends will react and flourish
Show threadJustin BruceFeb 25, 2024
@LostReflector @chopaganda @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 well said. one other thing that popped into my mind is that in 1.0 they’d chase a melody or a motif through a tour or a year. sometimes in 3.0, too, but more as a crutch, imo. and that’s not a thing in this more complex 4.0 conversation.
Show threadRoseyFeb 25, 2024
@justinbruce @LostReflector @chopaganda @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 Great thread. Grip and rip rock n roll is a young man’s game. That’s what hooked me 30 years ago. As I’ve gotten older, my tastes have changed. I’m more patient. And the band has mirrored that. Patience doesn’t always pay off, but when Phish is patient and listening these days, they can be transcendent and the jams layered in ways they could never reach in their 20s. Also, they’ve got better gear, as folks mentioned.
Show threadJustin BruceFeb 25, 2024
@Rosey @LostReflector @chopaganda @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 patience and listening are great distillations of this whole conversation. Well said.
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@justinbruce @Rosey @LostReflector @chopaganda @ry_storm @vriphish76

But their patience and listening skills were way better back in the day IMO. With the exception of the occasional long jam, patience is one of the things most lacking with current Phish. I think out of our unconscious fanboy loyalty, we trick ourselves into thinking Phish is better now or just as good, or just as great but different, etc. I still love Phish and have some hope, but they haven’t been very good for a while...

Show threadRyan StormFeb 25, 2024
@Bandino @justinbruce @Rosey @LostReflector @chopaganda @vriphish76 Lol
Show threadJustin BruceFeb 25, 2024
@Bandino @Rosey @LostReflector @chopaganda @ry_storm @vriphish76 I think our ears are hearing the same thing differently. *if* melt was sum total of 4.0 improv, it wouldn’t compare to heyday melodies being “written” on a wire back in the day; those are peak musical experiences. 99 Raleigh tweezer theme (which they played throughout 99 & 2000) is apples and oranges to stepping off the ledge into the abyss in 4.0. But I hear miles of difference between the best 4.0 improv and a late s2 4.0 melt
Show threadRyan StormFeb 25, 2024
@justinbruce @Bandino @Rosey @LostReflector @chopaganda @vriphish76 Agreed
Show threadChopFeb 25, 2024
@Bandino @justinbruce @Rosey @LostReflector @ry_storm @vriphish76 And here I fully disagree with you on patience and listening. If anything, I think their improv can be too patient.
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@chopaganda @justinbruce @Rosey @LostReflector @ry_storm @vriphish76

I agree that there are some jams where they are too patient. But I think patience is more important in transitions and set flow then jam length. Like Trey giving a jam an extra minute to wind down before ending it. Or if they chose to play a couple less songs in a set. Or not abruptly ending a song and instead choosing to fade out. Or making that Gumbo 8-9 minutes instead of 5-6. Etc. that’s the kind of patience they lack

Show threadWorld's Greatest DadFeb 26, 2024
@Bandino @chopaganda @justinbruce @Rosey @LostReflector @ry_storm @vriphish76 I've never understood the whole 'jam should've been longer' thing. Who knows better whether a jam is going anywhere good than the guy responsible for making it good? I know 'length doesn't equal quality' but it's a pretty damn good indicator with Phish and I think that's because Trey knows when shit isn't going anywhere.
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 26, 2024

@richkny @chopaganda @justinbruce @Rosey @LostReflector @ry_storm @vriphish76

I’m more talking about all the abrupt moments in shows that kill flow. I wish Phish would be more patient at the beginning and ends of songs/jams and segues. I think their more groove-based compositions should often have intro jams where they ease into it. I’m also of the opinion that it’s usually better to keep songs unfinished after long jams. Trey so often brings back the head so awkwardly...

Show threadJustin BruceFeb 26, 2024
@Bandino @richkny @chopaganda @Rosey @LostReflector @ry_storm @vriphish76 I’m 10000% in favor of what you’re talking about, bandino, re: letting transitions breathe. some of the best under-the-radar phish moments pop up in these zones
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@justinbruce @LostReflector @chopaganda @ry_storm @vriphish76

See I totally disagree--what y’all call “complex” or “mature” or “experimental” are Phish jams that just don’t really gel melodically or rhythmically and descend into sludgy effects or randomness that really isn’t difficult for any band to do if they have great gear/effects. Which is pretty much every 3.0 Melt. It’s cool in the moment, but that’s it. And I think they still fall into all the same formulaic traps they always have.

Show threadChopFeb 25, 2024
@Bandino @justinbruce @LostReflector @ry_storm @vriphish76 As much as we don’t want to hear it—especially since it’s from you—there is some truth in what you just posted. Not saying I’m fully aligned in the least. But there is some truth to it.
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@chopaganda @justinbruce @LostReflector @ry_storm @vriphish76

The Bandummy™️ appreciates your support Chop 😂

Show threadMr. CompletelyFeb 25, 2024
@justinbruce @chopaganda @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 extremely insightful analysis. I think we're hearing the same things.
Show threadRyan StormFeb 25, 2024
@chopaganda @justinbruce @Bandino @vriphish76 that’s crazy to me lol I think 4.0 has an incredible amount of replay value
Show threadChopFeb 25, 2024
@ry_storm @justinbruce @Bandino @vriphish76 You also think 2017-2020 is great Phish.
Show threadTHE BandinoFeb 25, 2024

@ry_storm @chopaganda @justinbruce @vriphish76

That’s because you’re the fluffiest fluffer to ever fluff. But I can’t blame you--I would be too if I was barely old enough to drink. I would say about 5-10% of 4.0 has replay value

Show threadS.I.R.Feb 25, 2024
@chopaganda @justinbruce @ry_storm @Bandino @vriphish76 I agree with this which is why the Dust is so special to my ears. Has incredible band interplay