🔥 #BREAKING #Trump 1/...

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Breaking news, first
@thedailybeast

Donald Trump has been hit with a massive one-two punch in his bank fraud case.

He owes $372 million for lying—and he can't borrow money from any New York bank, frustrating his ability to appeal the judgment.

2/ #WompWomp
"Judge Arthur Engoron ordered the former president and the #Trump Organization to pay over $300 million in damages, and bars Trump "from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for a period of three years."

👉🏼Judge Engoron bans Don Jr. and Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for 3 years.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/ny-fraud-case-damages-pay-millions-judge-engoron-rcna135283

Judge Engoron fines Trump more than $350M, bars him from running businesses in N.Y. for 3 years

The judge who presided over a civil business fraud trial against Donald Trump and his company has issued a decision.

NBC News

3/ Via Kyle Griffin:

JUDGE BANS DONALD TRUMP AND THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION FROM APPLYING FOR LOANS FROM ANY NEW YORK-CHARTERED FINANCIAL INSTITUTION FOR 3 YEARS

UDGE SAYS TRUMP ORGANIZATION MUST INSTALL AN INDEPENDENT DIRECTOR OF COMPLIANCE, AND SAYS ITS INDEPENDENT MONITOR SHALL CONTINUE IN HER ROLE FOR AT LEAST THREE YEARS

4/ And yes, for the record, I got immediate Debbie Downer replies.

And for those who don't like that I say that, well I don't like that you can't appreciate good news for 2 seconds.

@GottaLaff One legit bummer is that EJC is probably going to have to get in line behind Albany
@todwest @GottaLaff I thought, don't have a source at hand, that he already had to pony up for the penalties to Carroll even as he appeals. Of course, dunno if he did that, but he owes those to the court and then the court passes it on to Carroll. So, it's all Albany. And she doesn't have to try to collect.
@colo_lee @GottaLaff Hope so. I'm betting he's actually underwater he's so over-leveraged.
@colo_lee @todwest @GottaLaff The jury found that Mr Trump in fact did ‘rape’ Ms Carroll as that term commonly is used and understood in contexts outside of the New York penal law.” Half the country wants to give him a free pass for rape - “Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears” Dylan

@GottaLaff

Thing is, I bet the $dollar signs$ with numbers hurts him waaaay more than years this-that banned-whatever.

@GottaLaff This news will be good for years. I just can't wait for the loser's reaction!

@GottaLaff

This is a massive blow to Trump, and anyone who can't appreciate that is a hopeless sad sack. Brighten up people. We are winning!

@mastodonmigration @GottaLaff So right now (without any other of the ongoing cases) Trump is on the hook for $455 million that he almost certainly hasn't got, and which he cannot borrow in New York.

@mastodonmigration

Yes, this is a huge deal.. trump needs to come up with near HALF A BILLION DOLLARS.... and loses the base of his business and the idiot sons do as well... so.. massive win for the people of new york...

@GottaLaff

@tdwllms1 @GottaLaff

Plus don't think he can use campaign money for this. He can ask his supporters (suckers) for $$$, but he needs to clearly disclose what it is for.

@mastodonmigration
Probably not... but one good reason he wants every dime of RNC campaign cash... gotta pay attorneys and try to launder some top pay fines

@GottaLaff

@GottaLaff

Oh, for Pete’s sake! Why can’t people just appreciate the wins? I don’t understand the contrarian viewpoint…

@KimberlyN @GottaLaff For me, this is a MASSIVE win. He loses cash he doesn't have (without selling properties), and he's out of business for several years in NY.

@DoctorDNS @KimberlyN @GottaLaff

It is also very hard to quickly sell properties like these.

@DoctorDNS @KimberlyN @GottaLaff

Once he's divested from NY, he'll never be able to get back in.

This decision is Trump's Roach Motel. He's not coming back out of it.

@skydog @DoctorDNS @KimberlyN @GottaLaff in three years you don’t think he can come back?

@lillyfinch @DoctorDNS @KimberlyN @GottaLaff

No. I don't think he'll find anything favorable for him in NY. That includes licensing, financing, sellers, vendors. He would either be re-investing in properties...or I suppose he might try to have his business taken over by a proxy who he can retreive it from. But I think the bottom line is, he's been run out of town on a rail, dripping tar and flinging feathers.

@skydog @lillyfinch @DoctorDNS @KimberlyN @GottaLaff lord I hope so….he will move on elsewhere though I am sure…if he is alive.
@lillyfinch @skydog @KimberlyN @GottaLaff no. He's done. No bank will touch him. The brand is toast.
@DoctorDNS @lillyfinch @skydog @KimberlyN @GottaLaff thanks..what a relief…3 years didn’t seem like nearly enough
@GottaLaff He's letting them off so lightly!
@riley Huh?

@GottaLaff I often complain about how American courts tend to oversentence in comparison to European courts.

Well, in a lot of European countries, a 5-year ban on serving as a corporate officer, for a financial fuckery of this magnitude, would have been pretty automatic. He only gave them three years.

Might not be a big practical difference in context of Pumpkin the Elder, who might not even have more than three years to live, but still.

@riley Let's just appreciate good news
@GottaLaff Indeed. The ruling itself is good, and the disengorgement, well, while I hoped it to be a bit higher, it's a reasonable amount, and hopefully defensible on appeal, too.

@riley I'm sure that the talking heads will have their theories on why it's three years.

My guess is that Trump's age was a factor.

Three years is a long time for a fat old man who's one cheeseburger away from a quadruple bypass.

@GottaLaff

@patmadigan @riley @GottaLaff
He does seem to care for the money more than anything else, and even after those three years he's going to be scrutinized so closely that the only folks willing to give him a Benjamin will be payday lenders.

We can of course hope that the resultant stress from having to pay that dosh will disqualify him from the more... humous aspects of his chosen career, though.

@theogrin @patmadigan @riley @GottaLaff Y'all gotta find some joy in your lives.

It's not the financial death penalty, but the guy just got the hammer dropped and the hammer weighs almost half-a-billion dollars.

Half a billion, and there's more in the pipeline.

It doesn't cure every evil in the world, but some of the evil in the world just took notice that it can be more expensive than it used to be.

Consequences.

They're awesome.

@signalthirteen @patmadigan @riley @GottaLaff

Oh, trust me, I'm vibing on the...

Hmm. Maybe not quite schadenfreude, but certainly the joy of seeing someone finding out.

@theogrin I have to admit I'm probably revelling in this more than a good person should.

I think psychologically he's being brought to his knees. I think he's starting to realize that there are far more people who are seeing him for who he really is than he was prepared for.

I'm sorry for all the people that were hurt or died on the way here, but I am glad that he will experience a small degree of the suffering he inflicted.

@signalthirteen

Considering how much harm he's brought to the world around himself, from his every action to the words which, on a daily basis, inspire violence in his base, enjoying seeing him ground into a puddle of depleted egonium hardly makes you a bad person.

Mercy is the mark of a great person. Guess we're just good ones. ...well, we're okay.

@theogrin I'll take ok.

I am also so stealing 'depleted egonium' 😆

@riley

I think the three-year ban is huge! I don’t follow business much but I can’t remember a case where the owner & ceo of a privately help company was banned from participating in the business for any period of time.

Keep in mind this is the United States where businessmen and their wealth are idolized like golden calves.

@bronakins This is common for financial malfeasance, such as failing to file for a bankruptcy when one is due, or creating a bankruptcy where one does not need to happen. In many jurisdiction, it's also an automatic side effect for the duration of a personal bankruptcy, and may last for a number of years after the discharge of the personal bankruptcy.

The prohibition is not on involvement in the business, but only on serving as a corporate officer. If the Trump Organisation doesn't get dissolved, Pumpkin can just hire somebody who is not disqualified to govern the business for him (and, of course, to be responsible for running the business in accordance with laws). He can stay involved as a stockholder, and he can hold stockholder meetings every now and then where he can listen to the corporate board's members' and officers' reports, and vote on questions put to stockholder vote, which probably includes regular votes on potentially replacing the board.

@riley @bronakins

Thanks for the info! Don’t get me wrong—I agree with your original point that trump’s ban should be for longer than 3 years. OTOH you say there are ways to circumvent such a ban, but it’s possible the special monitor might put a crimp in efforts to screw around while under such supervision.

@bronakins The things I listed are not circumventions. These are officially the sort of things that a rich person who can't handle his own affairs is supposed to do: hire somebody who can.

Serving as a corporate officer comes with a whole bunch of legal duties. It resembles, to a degree, beign a lawyer, except the legal profession is licence-in, and the corporate representation proession is disqualify-out, in that in modern Western countries, adults are, by default, expected to be able to do the job, but can be disqualified, usually by a court, if they screw up the legal-duties-to-state part too badly.

Pumpkin reincorporating in Florida and staying a corporate officer could be considered circumventive (although there might not be a legal remedy against it). Pumpkin standing down and hiring somebody like Alina Habba to be personally liable for future corporate malfeasance of the kind that corporate officers can be found responsible for, though, is exactly how this works.

In corporate governance, unlike state governance, there's no rule of strict separation of powers between stockholders, the board (if any — some types of corporations do not need a board), and the directors, but the rôles are, nevertheless, considered distinct. In fact, a number of fairly large corporations have had a single person being both a major stockholder, and also serving as both the chairman of the board and the CEO. Under this ruling, Pumpkin will not be able to be any executive officer, or sit on the board, of any New York corporation, but in capitalist law, there's no disqualification from being a stockholder.

The closest to such a concept might be a personal bankruptcy, which could involve stripping property — stock being considered property — from him, leaving him unable to afford any stock until the bankruptcy will be discharged. But I don't expect him to declare a personal bankruptcy in the immediate future. Maybe after his first criminal conviction, and even that I wouldn't really bet on.

Stockholders as a collective have the power to dictate to the board (or the directors, if there's no board) the corporate policy, and replace the board (or the directors, if there's no board), by holding a vote. In a corporation whose majority of stock is held by a single person, these votes would, for obvious reasons, to boil down to just that person's decisions.

Now, Pumpkin has been adjudicated to have done illegal things while he was a corporate officer. The important supposedly protective principle here is, as a stockholder, he will not be able to order such things done with corporate property personally, but executive officers distinct from him would be handling them for him, and he's not supposed to be able to force his board, his directors, or his corporate employees to do illegal things on his behalf; if these other people will be doing illegal things, they will be personally on the hook for them.

The catch here is, Pumpkin is kind of known for being able to find incompetent sycophants.

@bronakins Now coming back to the monitor — the ruling does actually do something stronger than that. It orders installation of an independent compliance director. This would be an officer whom Pumpkin, even as a meeting of the majority of the stockholders, will not be able to personally hire or fire on a whim; they would need to be approved by the court, and they would have full directorial power to make sure that other directors will not be doing illegal things.

This is probably the most effective thing that Engoron could have ordered to ward off future illegality in Trump Organization, short of just ordering dissolution of the whole thing. Also, it might lead to such dissolution indirectly, on account of Pumpkin's incompetent sycophants potentially being too incompetent to run a real estate business profitably without doing illegal things. I mean — whoever has heard of a casino going bankrupt? But Pumpkin managed to get such an incredible feat done.

@riley

🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯

It will be interesting to see the tug of war between the trump org’s former corrupt execs and the Court’s special monitor & Independent Compliance Officer.

@bronakins There won't be much of one. The ruling restricts all major transactions to supervision and pre-approval of the Directory of Compliance, specifically because Pumpkin was observed moving money out of the company in violation of previous court orders right under the nose of the court-appointed monitor.

@riley @bronakins

Donald trump is lawless; he will undoubtedly push the envelope (as apparently the company already has while under monitoring). That’s why I expected the monitor & compliance officer to eventually result in trump&co receiving more unfavorable attention from Judge Engoron’s court in the future.

@riley @GottaLaff only 20 million less than what James wanted. I agree 3 years seems short but maybe he won’t be around. His sons got slammed too….wonder who would do business with them anyway beside crooks.
@GottaLaff Finally! Go, Americans, do one judgement a month for 2024!
@jackyan @GottaLaff You know, at some point even the MAGAdiots will get tired of paying for legal expenses instead of Biden attack ads for some, or miniature American flags for others.
@GottaLaff there goes their CEO, btw. Bye, bye Eric.

@GottaLaff

Nice. Here's hoping in the next 3 years either Trump is in prison or his health has declined into nothingness.

@GottaLaff Clarification: Acc'g to NYT, the 2 adult sons are banned for 2 years each.
@mwk2244 @GottaLaff Believe me, I am not a fanboy of Elon Musk, but I wish his fancy rockets were ready now, and we would just launch these people to Mars.