@CRGonzalez @chrisjrn c’mon #Boston what are we waiting for?!
In particular, what’s going on with the bus system that was supposed to be updated in ‘23?
@CRGonzalez @tsyum @chrisjrn good transit systems actually do recoup serious money from transit fares - to remove fares in those cases would result either in cut service or additional taxes (that would probably be better spent on additional service)
for example, King County Metro (Seattle) covers 25-30% of its operating expenses with fares; that would mean making fares free would result in a cut to service of a quarter to a third
@streganil if 35% of its expenses are related to collecting and enforcing fares, and only 30% of its income is from the fares, then removing fares makes economic sense.
One small "downside": some people may use it who didn't use it when it wasn't free, to get to places they need or want to go - and that's fine too, it means they're not driving, which saves money on road maintenance and public health. It doesn't cost any more unless they all decide to travel at peak times and need more buses.
@hutchingsmusic @streganil excellently explained, but one minor proviso. I can't remember the exact multiplier, but I recall that because of their weight/size, buses are actually much harder on roads than cars, possibly by a factor of 10 or more. If that number is right, nobody should expect savings on road maintenance unless a given bus gets 10 cars off the road, which might be tall order.
[EDIT: OTOH, buses limit the damage to their specific routes]
@hutchingsmusic @streganil when I lived in Seattle in the early 90s, the city was replacing the asphalt at every bus stop with concrete, because the accel/decel of the bus would literally warp the asphalt into waves. I've been back since, and that fix seems to have worked.
Quite a few places don't need the big buses, either, which will also help.
@chrisjrn @streganil @CRGonzalez @tsyum It is a pretty solid number, much lower and fare free makes more sense, King Country says it costs 10% to enforce, and the interesting arrangement with large businesses for 50% of costs might be hard to keep if free at point of use.
https://kingcounty.gov/~/media/depts/metro/about/budget/king-county-metro-fares-and-revenue.pdf
Greater Wellington where I live and where public transport is strongly used across all income bands budgets for 33% farebox recovery currently.
@CRGonzalez @chrisjrn @tsyum MBTA has a farebox recovery ratio of 45%.
are you willing to cut service by nearly a half in order to remove fares?
@streganil @CRGonzalez @chrisjrn @tsyum
Revenue for fares for 2024 is projected to be $418 million. Sales tax covers $1463 million.
We also have over $500 million in debt service annually. Spend the $935 million on some of that instead of a whole new fare collection system, and pay for the rest by reverting the regressive portions of the recent tax cuts.
(This includes commuter rail, by the way.)
@streganil @CRGonzalez @tsyum @chrisjrn yep. The MBTA spends ~$50M to collect ~$150M in fares, so it’s a net win.
It’s great when a transit system can sensibly be free, but before we go making it free, we should listen to low income riders & improve service. This consistently ranks way higher than free or even reduced fares when we ask people.
@darwinwoodka @streganil @CRGonzalez @tsyum @chrisjrn sometimes we do, but not enough even when we toll roads.
But again: we should listen to riders, including low-income riders, & experts who, when asked, tell us that better, faster, reliable service is far & away more important than removing fares.
We shouldn’t be so arrogant as to think we know best for others, esp. when they’re so clear about what they want most.
@darwinwoodka @streganil @CRGonzalez @tsyum @chrisjrn yep! I’m with you.
We should absolutely stop subsidizing car use AND charge for road use AND charge properly for parking.
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