ozonedManifest v3 is Worse than I Thought
Vinny_93Who uses chrome anyway even there’s vivaldi
Give me some of that closed source browser goodness, yes. Vivaldi and Chrome are the same thing from a privacy perspective precisely because you cannot verify that they’re not.
Although you could take into account what the makers are telling you. You have to trust someone, and at least to my knowledge, Google fails and it’s all over the news, Vivaldi has not. It’s not like I can validate the Firefox source either, I’m just trusting the website I download it from, or more likely my distro packaging. And people do look at call outs browsers make etc.
Although you could take into account what the makers are telling you.
Google claims Chrome is private too.
all over the news, Vivaldi has not
Becauae not many gives a fuck about Vivaldi enough to reverse engineer it
not like I can validate the Firefox source either
You don’t have to. Thousand of people who know what they’re doing does.
just trusting the website I download it from, or more likely my distro packaging
This is a separate security, not privacy, issue resolved by trust chain model of distro packaging.
You don’t have to. Thousand of people who know what they’re doing does. But why would I trust any of them? I’m pointing out you have to choose who you trust, and from the history with the makers of Vivaldi, I trust them. Same as I don’t trust Google given their history.
Of course, I’m screwed anyway because there’s not reasonable competition in the phone space, and I have to use Microsoft products for work, and… {insert a dozen more things here}. Given all that, I’d like the browser that works better for me.
that works better for me. sure, I could not care less what browsers others use.
Trusting a company to do right by you (for unknown reasons) vs. trusting thousands of independent researchers who have no incentive to wrong you. Though pick, I guess.
To paraphrase ’ a Chrome by any other name would smell sweet’
Choose a Firefox-based browser instead for open source.
Browser Wars!!!
Lunya \ she/itWho uses vivaldi anyway even there’s firefox
I just can’t use a browser so… primitive? I wold gladly change to Firefox if it gave me all the customisation options Vivaldi has. Mouse gestures, synchronising my settings across 2 PCs and an android phone, shortcuts to different searchers etc. Plus it would need to be visually customisable so od doesn’t irritate me every couple of minutes.
LukeMouse gestures, synchronising my settings across 2 PCs and an android phone, shortcuts to different searchers etc. Plus it would need to be visually customisable
It sounds like perhaps you haven’t looked into Firefox for a while, because out of the box it does all of the things you listed, except for gestures. There are multiple popular plugins that provide Firefox gestures easily. I’m not sure what visual customizations you’re referring to, but Firefox also has had support for themes for ages now.
I don’t care for themes, just need night mode. I need the option to throw out any taskbars except fot tabs and address bar. Including any search window. I need a zoom slider at the bottom right corner, and this is a must. It’s also nice to have these things built in instead of looking for extensions. And You are right, o haven’t looked into Firefox for a long time.
except for gestures
2 finger swipe to the left or right is the gesture to go back and forward, don’t know what other gestures you’d need.
The “cradle” for going forward and backwards plus swipes for closing a tab, refreshing and opening a new tab.
My problem is - last time I looked, which was a while ago to be fair - there weren’t good tab management plugins that also supported tab title search, a list of tabs to easily close ones I didn’t need anymore with ctrl+click or shift+click, no session management, problems with cross window tab viewing/searching, no tab stacks, and now workspaces are kind of awesome for me too.
I’m not saying there aren’t extensions for each thing, I’m saying I could NOT get them all to work together, and have a fast performant browser without weird hangs, and the UI was kind of all over the place and hard to remember cause none of the extensions were designed to work together from what I could tell.
What I don’t get is why Vivaldi didn’t code on top of Firefox, but I think it’s because there are sites that work in chromium and don’t in Firefox, and fail silently - and just like in IE6 days, they’re sites like my parents retirement site, they can’t NOT use them.
All browser companies monetise you to some extent. Even Firefox does this a bit (Paid deals make Google is the default search, and Amazon search is also paid to be included as a link for example).
However the big difference is the private companies like Vivaldi, Brave etc monetise your data more and less transparently, plus the entire Chromium ecosystem is basically under Google's control. Manifest 3 will not be restricted to Chrome, it is being built into the Chromium project and will end up in Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Vivaldi, Brave etc. Chromium is a trojan horse project, used to push Google's priorities and objectives across the web, not end users.
The only viable alternative is Firefox based browsers. I use Firefox itself (aware of it's compromises and using a whole host of extensions), but there are also forks and projects that strip even Firefox's compromises back - LibreWolf in particular. For all the flaws of the Mozilla foundation, it is transparent on what it does to keep the project going, and the independence of the project compared to chromium is hugely important. Note Firefox is also going to support Manifest V3 (so that extensions can continue to be cross-browser) BUT it is also keeping support for the key APIs that Google is removing (i.e. the ability for extensions to use the block webRequest API which is foundational to current Ad and privacy protection extensions).
Vivaldi is no different to other Chromium based broswers; it uses the exact same Google controlled code base, plus it is doing everything it can to monetise you. You are the product; all these companies are stealing and financially exploiting your data and we're all just handing it to them on a platter for free and thanking them for fucking us over.
All beautifully preached to the choir. Now: how to communicate all this to the unwashed masses who think the web and the internet and Chrome are all the same thing? Serious question.
Good one. I’d say it is too late already. USA big tech is almost everywhere, and countless people are addicted to USA big tech, especially on their phones, and do not ask critical questions anymore.
I don’t see any reason to think Vivaldi is trying to monetize it’s users, it seems to have a lot of privacy features and the like. They strip out the chromium spying.
If they’re honest then Vivaldi really sounds pretty good for privacy:
vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/
But they’d certainly win a lot more trust if they went open source.
Putting Brave and Vivaldi in the same bucket is just Mozilla shilling.
☂️-why are people that allergic to firefox?
Mostly because the browsing experience IMO is much much worse with Firefox. I tried extensions to get functionality back, it made it worse - slower, buggy, extensions would stop being developed etc. I wish Firefox was better, I really do. But IME it’s frozen functionality like it’s 2010 or so. Like, they have tabs, who hoo. I really find save/restore, multi window control, tab stacks, sessions, workspaces, and easy UI config pretty important in day to day use. That said, I also think ads are a deal breaker, but I really wonder if this won’t bring back some of the ad-blocking proxies you run locally or something.
Or, someone forks chromium to keep Manifest v2 or whatever.
Vivaldi doesn’t have to use v3, Brave won’t. If Vivaldi does upgrade to v3, that should tell you something.
I use both Firefox and Chrome-based browsers and I haven’t come across any major differences in functionality. What are all these things Chrome can do that Firefox can’t?
those are all things that don’t exist on most browsers without many extensions
squid_slimeAnd google will kill its self
Nah, they know what they’re doing.
Wishful thinking on my part tbh, I forget that there is an ecosystem with gmail :/
PrivateNoobYeah and it’s kinda hard to get off from that. I’m in the process of switching my 2 gmail accounts to 2 proton ones and it seems that the ProtonMail app’s free plan doesn’t support multiple emails. Understandable but sad.
You wiuldn’t believe the amount of people who don’t use adblockers even now.
ZiixeYou wouldn’t believe how many people are actually incompetent using a pc beyond using default values and browsing the web, for example in school one day I had to help classmates save their project documents to the school’s server, because they didn’t know how to browse the select folder dialogue box (or whatever it’s called), and another dude in my class didn’t know how to use the shortcut bar at the bottom of the window in PowerPoint so he literally scrolled through the ribbon for like 2 minutes before he managed to launch the presentation (and this guy is a straight A student to note), I also heard stories about coworkers which didn’t know how to open a zip file or how to forward an email
The oversimplification of software is really problematic, since everything is made to be as straightforward as it can be people just go with it and then have a problem when they need to do something a different way
ZerushI think the same, obviously Google don’t know the Cobra Effect
The Cobra Effect: Lessons in Unintended Consequences
Unintended consequences happen so often that economists call them “Cobra Problems,” after a famous historic example. In colonial India, Delhi suffered a proliferation of cobras. To cut the number of cobras, the local government placed a bounty on them. Can you guess what happened?
nicetriangleEveryone losing their minds over this like Firefox doesn't exist.
Stop using Chrome.
The reason this is even a big problem is because everyone piled on Google's browser despite all the obvious reasons that wasn't gonna be a good idea on the long term.
I never understood why anybody thought a company – whose principal business is advertising and data mining – wouldn't eventually rug pull everyone like this with their browser as soon as it hit critical mass for market share.
cm0002Firefox exists, but it has its issues, it’s def not so great at memory optimization. It will regularly crash on me once I go beyond around 100 tabs regardless of how much system resources I throw at it (Seriously, it did the same thing on a 4 socket server with 512GBs RAM)
And starts getting sluggish when I even start approaching it. Chrome otoh, reserves a lot of RAM for itself, but at least it can manage it well into the hundreds of tabs I throw at it
ebits21Forgive me, but if there ever was a niche scenario this is it.
You’re the kind of user software developers dread.
Please leave this conversation, because you’re probably the only user who goes over 100 tabs. Normal people have about 10 open just for your reference
I routinely have more than 100 tabs open. Firefox doesn’t crash for me or use much RAM. Many tabs is a normal use-case and Firefox working worse than alternatives in such scenarios is a failing of Firefox.
But again, mine handles it fine. So potentially OP should try again with an up to date Firefox.
Can refute. I regularly get up to 200.
Apparently it’s super common among people with ADHD.
I have the opposite experience. I easily can have as many tabs at times and I’ve seen chrome use over 10gb of ram and fully lock at times. I switched to Firefox for that reason and others and it performs much better with that many tabs open. Most ram I’ve seen it using is about 6gb. Minimal and equivalent plugins in both. I’ve never had firefox crash. This across multiple computers. I now have uninstalled chrome everywhere…
shmanioSince you are sharing anecdotes, let me join.
For me FF has always been extremely stable, and I too regularly keep 100+ tabs open, on much more limited system resources. It is so stable that I’ve completely disabled history saving, and if there is something I want to read later I just keep the tab open. Never had an issue.
Tree Style Tabs also pushed me to have many tabs, because now I can actually organize those that I’ve opened and find them later.
Because there weren’t any great options at the time. Firefox has gotten better, but at that time Chrome was just super fast and lightweight in comparison to all the competitors.
MalReynoldsenshitification 101
JaysynOnly losers use Google Chrome.
1984I’m interested but I’m not watching 30 minutes of video…
TakThe person in the video talks so slowly I can listen to it at 1.5x speed. I feel like a jerk because it’s clearly not their first language and I can only imagine how difficult that can be but at 1x speed it’s a seriously slow video.
To my understanding this is a more in-depth breakdown of how and why browser extensions will not be able to intercept the webpage before the browser displays it and instead it will be executed via scripts on the browser itself. Google claims this is to speed up the process, improve security, and reduce computational power and it does seem to do that but at the expense of the freedom of the browser extensions to alter the web pages being displayed.
Thank you. Sounds like the typical reasons to remove freedom from the users. :)
get firefox and ublock origin.
its so fucking simple, why do people have such weird attachment to chrome??
Agreed on using Firefox/LibreWolf and uBlock Origin, I love that combination. I think the thing is that Google Chrome is much faster than Firefox on Android phones (I don’t mind, I hardly ever use mobile to browse), and long time habits can be hard to break for some people.
Yup, can say that firefox is quite a bit slower on android (but honestly it’s still quite ok, unless it decides to loop loading the page, or it bugs out in another way, at least on my phone it’s quite prone to breaking, for comparison brave is really a bit faster than Firefox
Way faster when you consider time spent loading and navigating around all the fucking ads.
Well of course, that’s why I compared brave and not chrome, although the brave adblock sucks sometimes
But yeah, the firefox on android is good enough to set it as a default browser (never actually noticed that the Google discover page just opens in chrome and ignores your default browser before doing this, interesting how some apps do this too)
Yeah the Google News app too. It's fucking useless -- any time you click something on it you get served up a page of nothing but ads, modals, autoplays, and other unusable crap. Bouncing around as it loads. I had to finally uninstall it and switch to just a bookmark on the homescreen instead.
SpazDisable chrome/browser on android
Yeah, it IS slower on android. But adblocking more than makes up for it IMO.
Also not only that, but the ability to let me choose if I want to open a link in an app or not, happens countless times with stuff like GitHub automatically wanting to redirect to the app (which sucks)