Mastodawn

CCC leadership is forcing random community members to confront, kick out, and request an actual ban of Jake Appelbaum from CCC events. This is absolute cowardice and lack of care for those who are vulnerable to sexual assault. It’s been 8 years since leadership knew that he was a danger to the community

https://tldr.nettime.org/@eaon/111658045309830027

Indeterminacy, maybe (@[email protected])

Yesterday, Linus Neumann and Frank Rieger were visibly uncomfortable when they met with me to discuss my confrontation with Jacob Appelbaum. It turns out, Jake has never been formally banned from any CCC event. #37c3 #ioerror

tldr.nettime

schrotthaufen Dec 28, 2023

@vaurora @tante He has been banned from congress in 2016. I wonder why they don’t enforce it (anymore?). https://nitter.net/chaosupdates/status/743796751694467073

Steamroller Willie (Cotton 🍬)Dec 28, 2023

@schrotthaufen @vaurora @tante on a technicality he wasn't formally banned. Not ever, in fact.

tante Dec 28, 2023

@eaon @schrotthaufen @vaurora @tante absolutely pathetic. Thanks for getting him kicked out this time and sorry you had to go through this.

schrotthaufen Dec 28, 2023

@eaon @vaurora @tante Woah. That’s weak sauce. Thank you for doing the right thing.

Florian Idelberger Dec 29, 2023

@eaon @schrotthaufen @vaurora @tante do you know what this technicality was if you want to share?

Steamroller Willie (Cotton 🍬)Dec 29, 2023

@fl0_id @schrotthaufen @vaurora @tante https://tldr.nettime.org/@eaon/111658054295872100

The lack of hierarchical structures to just be able to make that call for real was cited to me as the reason. So some of them thought the next best thing was playing pretend.

But from where I stand, it is the unwillingness by the organisation to become proactive in a real sense why all that existed was a tweet to give the illusion of safety and care, when in fact they were, again, just engaged in reputation management.

Don't get me wrong, I am not calling for hierarchy, that was Linus' and Frank's justification - they had a literal year to handle this because they knew he was trying to become ever more present. And then didn't do shit.

Indeterminacy, maybe (@[email protected])

But what about https://twitter.com/chaosupdates/status/743796751694467073 then? Well. That tweet was an informal statement that couldn't be backed up by a formal mandate in the organisational structure of CCC #37c3

tldr.nettime

Florian Idelberger Dec 29, 2023

@eaon @schrotthaufen @vaurora @tante thanks for the info, sad

Wren Reilly Dec 29, 2023

@eaon @fl0_id @schrotthaufen @vaurora @tante

Failure to have a code of conduct and enforcement is a hierarchy. It puts rapists in charge of the event.

Funny that the argument against masks for COVID at CCC events was that masks supposedly give immunosuppressed people a false sense of security, something blatantly false. Yet event policies full of holes are just fine.

Valerie Aurora Dec 29, 2023

@akareilly @eaon @fl0_id @schrotthaufen @tante

ccc leadership: banning a known predator from our event is impossible

also ccc leadership: you must have a ticket to attend our event

strange how one of these is compatible with their principles about hierarchy and the other is not

Wren Reilly Dec 29, 2023

@vaurora @eaon @fl0_id @schrotthaufen @tante a ticket that many people can’t afford because Germany’s statistics on racism, gender gaps in STEM, and pay gaps in IT lag behind the rest of Europe. This isn’t just about a little private club. People are making professional connections at CCC events. Events inaccessible to many people.

LB Dec 29, 2023

@akareilly This is actually a very bad take when you compare the ticket price to other big conferences and take the friends tickets into consideration.

If you want to make professional connections at a conference, the CCC events are the cheapest option in the market.

Wren Reilly Dec 29, 2023

@lbenedix When you can’t afford €100, it doesn’t matter that another event is €1000

It especially matters when you can’t afford the ticket and travel because you were fired for objecting to sexism, pay gaps, ableism, racism, transphobia, harassment, and physical threats at work.

Even if you can afford the €, trauma from encountering an abuser at an event causes burnout and then you lose your job and then what? It’s all tied together.

LB Dec 29, 2023

@akareilly I'm totally with you on banning Jake and other assholes from the Congress.

But you were talking about the ticket price and how you could use the Congress for making professional connections. I'd say there are a lot of opportunities for people with no money to attend CCC events, more than for any comparable event.

LB Dec 29, 2023

@akareilly I'm also with you that the Congress and other CCC events feel like a private elitist club.

But it's not about the money.

"Wer macht, hat Recht" and "judge people by what they do" can be very exclusive. Most people don't have the luxury to have the resources to spend the better part of a year to prepare Congress and they basically don't count in the "meritocracy" that the Congress wants to be. Surviving seems to be not enough.

LisPi Jan 2, 2024

@lbenedix @akareilly That's more of an indictment of conferences in general than something to pat themselves on the back about.

Alper Çuğun-Gscheidel Dec 29, 2023

@vaurora @akareilly @eaon @fl0_id @schrotthaufen @tante This is part and parcel of:
- all the communications from the CCC being anonymous and unaccountable
- the structure and finances of the CCC being unclear

This is an organization that pretends to guide the digital policy of Germany in a good direction (good for who??) and people here in tech lap it up.

Andreas Tengicki Dec 29, 2023

@alper @vaurora @akareilly @eaon @fl0_id @schrotthaufen @tante some more conspiracy theorie, please. Flood the news with bullshit and no one can know who can be trust.

Alper Çuğun-Gscheidel Dec 29, 2023

@andreas_tengicki It’s not a conspiracy theory. The organization is intransparent by design. Can you demonstrate the contrary?

Alper Çuğun-Gscheidel Dec 29, 2023

@andreas_tengicki @vaurora @akareilly @eaon @fl0_id @schrotthaufen @tante This is 100% the problem with every structureless organization: https://vis.social/@yetzt/111663435024320452

yetzt (@[email protected])

the ccc does not have leaders, frank and linus would never allow that.

vis.social

Andreas Tengicki Dec 29, 2023

@alper @vaurora @akareilly @eaon @fl0_id @schrotthaufen @tante You did not understand me. Thats the problem of people thinking conspiracy theory is real.

Julian (he/they)Dec 28, 2023

@vaurora thank you for getting him kicked out. I‘m very sorry you had to go through this

padeluun ⁂Dec 28, 2023

@vaurora Unforgiveness is inhuman.

Valerie Aurora Dec 28, 2023

@padeluun you seem to be confusing the emotional catharsis of someone wronged with basic safety and community management *plonk*

hey @padeluun - du hast vielleicht bemerkt, dass deine Antwort auf den Sachverhalt in der Chaos-Community auf wenig bis kein Verständnis gestoßen ist. Auch wenn ich zu diesem Zeitpunkt selbst nicht im Chaos-Umfeld aktiv war und nur durch den Hashtag des Congresses in meiner Timeline drauf aufmerksam wurde, fand ich deine Antwort nicht gut.

Mit anderen Worten: Ich würde mir wünschen, dass Du in Zukunft sprachlich und kommunikativ nicht die Täter verteidigst und den Opfern die erlebten Situationen absprichst.

padeluun ⁂Dec 30, 2023

@lukas Eine Gesellschaft, die kein Erbarmen kennt, kann nicht meine sein. Dazu stehe ich.

Christian Pietsch (old acct.)Dec 31, 2023

@padeluun Bekanntlich kann es Vergebung erst nach einem Schuldeingeständnis und der Bitte um Vergebung geben.

padeluun ⁂Dec 31, 2023

@chpietsch @lukas Oder nach einem fairen Prozess.

Christian Pietsch (old acct.)Dec 31, 2023

@padeluun Wer keine Schuld hat, braucht logischerweise keine Vergebung.

Christian Pietsch (old acct.)Dec 31, 2023

@padeluun Im Fall eines Schuldspruchs kann nach Verbüßung der Strafe mit der Wiedereingliederung begonnen werden. Aber an dem Punkt sind wir ja nicht.

Kraftwerk-Das Model Collapse Dec 30, 2023

flere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jan 2, 2024

@padeluun who the fuck are you that you think you can fucking demand forgiveness from people who were harmed?

start with working with the aggressor and make him do honest work towards repairing the harm he has done, if you feel so fucking bold, because it is that dude who should change.

leave the people who were harmed in peace.

the level of bloody entitlement is staggering.