DannyMacTesla whistleblower calls cars with Autopilot “experiments in public roads”
tsonfeirThe more important person to punish is the one who let them do it
BB69FSD, maybe. But autopilot operates fine and is no different than what most major manufacturers offer.
My vehicle can do almost all the same stuff as “autopilot” but it turns the autosteering and cruise off if I dont touch the wheel every 30 seconds. Its all the same types of sensors,etc. And mine isn’t even a luxury brand. Just the higher end trim package of a budget vehicle.
helenslunchWhat is your point
I made my point in my comment (not that it was anything earth shattering.)
What’s yours?
Nevermind, I don’t give a fuck.
I made my point in my comment
I don’t understand. You just replied to this person to brag about your car?
What’s yours?
I didn’t make a point, I asked a question.
Autopilot also shuts off with no driver input. Faster than 30 seconds too.
GhostalmediaLast time I tried autopilot was 4 years ago, so I imagine things have become better. That said, on a test drive, on a rainy day, auto lane change did some fighting stuff. Thought lanes were clear, learned they weren’t, then violently ripped the car back to the origin lane in conditions that were prime for hydroplaning.
My wife and I were scared shitless, and the woman from Telsa, who was also in the car, tried to reassure us by saying “it’s ok, this is normal.”
Then we return the car to the parking lot and auto park almost took out a kid in an enclosed parking structure.
I imagine it’s become better in 4 years, but how that was street legal baffled my mind.
None of what you mentioned is in basic autopilot. Autopilot is lane keep and traffic aware cruise control only.
Auto lane change is not a function of Autopilot
Yes they are. There are two tiers of autopilot functionality. Basic and Advanced. This is part of the Advanced Autopilot tier.
www.tesla.com/support/autopilot
Telsa refers to those features as “autopilot”, and this former employee is referring those features as “autopilot” is his whistle blower claims.
It’s called “Enhanced Autopilot” and is distinctly different from “AutoPilot”.
This is like arguing that an iPhone Pro isn’t a “iPhone,” it’s a “iPhone Pro.”
Call it whatever you want. This whistle blower, the press, and this comment thread are all referring to unsafe features of Tesla’s L2 automation that are currently available to the public.
This is like arguing that an iPhone Pro isn’t a “iPhone,” it’s a “iPhone Pro.”
Yes it is, and in certain contexts (such as this one) it is very important. Especially considering that Autopilot has been installed on every vehicle made in the last several years and Enhanced Autopilot will be in practically zero.
This whistle blower, the press, and this comment thread are all referring to unsafe features of Tesla’s L2 automation that are currently available to the public.
According to whom? Nothing in the OP title, the OP article or the BBC piece they robbed the story from indicates any of that.
Enhanced Autopilot is very popular. All the hardware is already installed on the car, it just needs to be unlocked by purchasing the subscription in the app. The Full Self Driving package is also unlockable via a software subscription. FSB will be out of beta soon, but advanced autopilot has been a popular purchase for many years. It’s one of the main reasons people buy a Telsa. It is most definitely not on “practically zero” Teslas.
As for “according to whom” - you replied to my comment about my experience with autopilot. So according to me.
Advanced autopilot did some frightening stuff during the little time I spent driving a model 3. I really wanted to like the model 3 and was expecting to whip out my checkbook, but that test drive scared the shit out of my wife and I. It made some very dangerous lane changes and summon almost hit a kid in a parking lot. The latter is definitely widely reported. I’m not the only person to have experienced that problem.
All the hardware is already installed on the car, it just needs to be unlocked by purchasing the subscription in the app. The Full Self Driving package is also unlockable via a software subscription.
I know all of this but I’m not sure why you’re telling me…
FSB will be out of beta soon,
LOL what are you talking about? Where are you getting this from? Elon? Autopilot isn’t even out of Beta…
It’s one of the main reasons people buy a Telsa
It’s absolutely not. If the few people I know who actually bought it, they were pretty much all disappointed and don’t use it.
As for “according to whom” - you replied to my comment about my experience with autopilot. So according to me.
I replied to your comment about the engineer speaking specifically about “Enhanced Autopilot” as opposed to what the article refers to as “Autopilot”.
What is your source for that? Because everything I can see says “autopilot”.
Advanced autopilot did some frightening stuff during the little time I spent driving a model 3.
Once again, there’s no such thing as “advanced autopilot”, and once again, that’s not what we’re discussing.
No.
I own a model 3 and a 2022 palisade with Lane assist and used to own a Subaru with Lane assist.
The model 3 auto steer, exit to exit EAP, and auto lane change are very different than the simple lane assist that either other cars offer and honestly after using EAP for five years, while I do use AP under specific circumstances, I have come to the opinion that it is not ready for prime time and has some major issues, especially the a uto lane changing, that should have been worked out before release and I still never use that feature.
Given my background in embedded software, I honestly think the way they rolled out and advertised these features was reckless.
EAP is not based autopilot and closer to FSD. Base autopilot is on par with most manufacturers. I’d argue it’s safer than some in regards to capabilities with less common lane setups or lack of clear road lines.
I’ve put like 10k miles on AutoPilot. It’s not an experiment.
Ah yes, “I’ve personally done this and I’m the most important, therefore it’s not true. It’s the experts and engineers who are wrong.”
Besides “everybody look at me!!”, what is your point?
It’s not that I know better than them. It’s that they are blowing things out of proportion.
And you say that based on personal anecdotes, rather than education and design/testing/systems implementation experience.
Do you think 10k miles (unknown time frame, but my point stands even at one year) is a singular meaningful data point for the thousands (millions now?) of Autopilot enabled Teslas?
What is the right proportion for it to be blown up to if it was your loved one killed?
And you say that based on personal anecdotes
Because nothing more is necessary. If it was an “experiment” I would know about it because it would be driving erratically and attempting to kill me but instead it is “pretty good”.
If it was an “experiment” I would know about it because it would be driving erratically and attempting to kill me but instead it is “pretty good”.
Mate, that’s not an experiment lifecycle works at all. The ignorance on display here is palpable.
I would be very upset that there was such an irresponsible driver behind the wheel for sure. That’s not Tesla’s fault. You can’t blame Tesla because they added safety features to the car…
How convenient, you avoided answering my question at all! And rather blame the poor implementation of an inaccurate technology, disguised as a safety feature (that has directly caused 17 fatalities, mind you), you blame the user (victim). Actually, I’d make the argument this isn’t a “safety feature” at all, more of a convenience feature, but I digress.
Also there are dozens of other cars with this same technology on the road but everyone wants to pick on Tesla because it makes headlines.
I’ll gladly shit on all the other manufacturers implementing this technology. It’s all garbage if it poses a threat to a human life.
All of this is out of scope as my point is your anecdotal experience is not significant and dismissing results due to your own biases is quite ignorant.
The ignorance on display here is palpable.
Agreed.
How convenient, you avoided answering my question at all!
Why do you hate children?
that has directly caused 17 fatalities, mind you
:citation needed:
It’s all garbage if it poses a threat to a human life.
It doesn’t. It’s the opposite. It protects human life.
dismissing results due to your own biases is quite ignorant.
How can I “dismiss results” when none have been presented?
Agreed.
eye roll I’m so ignorant. My CompE Master’s and my previous work in vision-based AI collision detection systems has left me woefully unprepared to have educated and qualified experience for this exact topic.
Why do you hate children?
I never mentioned children, don’t put words in my mouth. Keep deflecting.
:citation needed:
Here you go: washingtonpost.com/…/tesla-autopilot-crashes-elon…
Nifty: www.tesladeaths.com
It protects human life.
I’m sure the 17+ dead human lives really appreciate this “protection”.
Maybe “results” weren’t the right word. Dismissing the findings of engineers close to the technology might fit better, but I’m definitely calling the number of fatalities and accidents caused by Autopilot as results of Autopilot and therefore Tesla.
It is not my intention to attempt to change your mind on this technology though, I’m just pointing out your anecdotal experience is not significant and dismissing the findings of engineers close to the technology due to your own biases is incredibly ignorant. This mindset is harmful whether you accept that or not.
Best of luck and good day.
My CompE Master’s and my previous work in vision-based AI collision detection systems has left me woefully unprepared to have educated and qualified experience for this exact topic.
That’s awesome! Would you share more with us about the research you conducted with Tesla’s AutoPilot, and specifically what makes it “experimental”?
I never mentioned children
How convenient, you avoided answering the question at all!
Here you go:
As I suspected, nothing points to the notion that this was caused by AutoPilot. It’s caused by inattentive drivers.
I’m sure the 17+ dead human lives really appreciate this “protection”.
There are no dead human lives. You’re just making that up.
dismissing the findings of engineers close to the technology due to your own biases is incredibly ignorant.
I don’t have any biases. “Ignorant” is claiming that a driver assistance system is responsible for driver inattentiveness.
Bye bye now.
Why the accidents happen is not why I commented. I’m not going to argue if the assistance system is responsible or the driver is, that’s a different argument and it’s my fault I let it get to this point.
I don’t have any biases.
Says the person that literally drives a Tesla with Autopilot, as claimed in your parent comment. “Bias: A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.” You’ve favored your own 10k+ miles over an ex-Tesla employee and refuse to accept reported data. Funnily enough, your narcissistic anecdotes are another type of fallacy related to your confirmation bias.
Let’s revisit why I commented again:
Your ignorance is due to you believing your personal anecdotal evidence is qualified in any way to dismiss Autopilot issues as an experiment.
You’ve drawn a conclusion using fallacious information. That’s it.
Hey welcome back!
Why the accidents happen is not why I commented.
That’s literally the entire point of the article in OP. You repeatedly blamed Autopilot for several deaths. If that’s not the point, what is?
Says the person that literally drives a Tesla with Autopilot
That doesn’t inherently make me biased. I can and will gladly talk shit about all the dumb shit Tesla does. There’s plenty of it to go around without fabricating nonsense.
You’ve favored your own 10k+ miles over an ex-Tesla employee and refuse to accept reported data
You keep repeating this and I keep correcting you. I’m not doing it again. I’ve been abundantly clear about this several times at this point. That’s not what’s happening. If you want to argue with a strawman, feel free to do that with yourself.
Your ignorance is due to you believing your personal anecdotal evidence is qualified in any way to dismiss Autopilot issues as an experiment.
It absolutely is. It doesn’t require anything more. That’s just a fact.
Bless your heart, sweetie.
That’s literally the entire point of the article in OP. You repeatedly blamed Autopilot for several deaths. If that’s not the point, what is?
Let me check where I commented on the article and not your anecdotal evidence…I didn’t. I tried to give some frame of reference for your “proportion” which devolved into discussing responsibility for the deaths. Not my intention with my parent comment reply.
It absolutely is. It doesn’t require anything more. That’s just a fact.
I’ll start letting everyone know their anecdotal evidence is more than enough to start dismissing other claims then.
Oh, honey…
I’ll start letting everyone know their anecdotal evidence is more than enough to start dismissing other qualified claims
As you already know, it obviously depends on the circumstances
Oh babe, it’s completely obvious. I just wish arguments from anecdotes were more obvious.
I had nothing to do with any testing or development with Tesla’s autonomous systems but I totally know everything about it
🤣
Considering 68.25% of all US crashes involving driver assist systems were due to Tesla Autopilot, I agree it’s an experiment.
My parents have that Lidar cruise control on their Toyota. It was active—but not on—one day when I was driving, and the damned car started freaking out BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE thinking I’m about to plow into a parked car because there was a gentle curve in the road.
My car looks to slam on the brakes when I back out of my driveway sometimes. Super annoying
PoggervaniaIt’s funny how some of Elongated Muskrat’s testing and experiments involve the subjects dying.
Monkeys dying with the Neuralink experiments, and humans are dying with these autopilot tests!
Lemmy as a whole appears to irrationally hate Tesla because of their stupid CEO. I think his penchant for calling what is essentially “advanced autopilot” FULL SELF DRIVING should be illegal. But he’s a car salesman and for some reason the government is letting him call it that. Be mad at our lawmakers for that. He’s just a sheister and our lawmakers suck at reining him in.
Tesla cars themselves are actually really good. Very safe cars that don’t roll over because of the heavy battery located so low, very responsive acceleration, and some nice quality of life low hanging fruit in the technology department, like my phone being a key. I was told by my Tesla rep when I bought the car to not buy FSD. It’s experimental and will not ever probably be driving you to your destination safely. The fact that they sell it with a name that implies it will is the problem. And people believe it. That’s incredibly dangerous.
On the same note of blame the lawmakers
There’s a lot of hate about Teslas cars not reaching EPA estimates on highways.
The EPA test is the problem. The test doesn’t include real world driving such as at 70mph and for whatever reasons, a Tesla often takes a bigger hit at 70mph than some other cars.
I don’t doubt Tesla did some ratio optimization on the motors to get better EPA numbers, that’s just playing the game, but please lobby the EPA to change the testing methodology.
Tests need to better include faster driving. Manufacturers should be required to show both numbers not a combined number, and they really need to add some sort of cold weather test.
This infuriates me to no end. The EPA could just mandate multiple numbers!
I want a graph of the car going every speed between 55, 65, 75, and 85 on a treadmill at 0, 25, 50, 75, and 100°F while maintaining a cabin temp of 72°F.
I want to know how much battery it used doing the above in stop and go traffic for an hour.
“Combined blah” is horseshit.
Hey, EPA, hire this person!!
I always assumed that was the case. We are still experimenting with human drivers.
Non-consentual Human Experimentation is a war crime.
It’s consentual if you buy it though.
Calling it a war crime is slightly extreme.
If you hit another motorist or pedestrian, it’s no longer consensual.
War crime is a tad much sure. Let’s just make it a felony.
Except the other drivers on the road aren’t all in Teslas, yet they are non-consentually and possibly even unknowingly a part of this experiment.
It’s peace time though so it doesn’t qualify
/s