Kevin CarsonNov 25, 2023
The Only Democracy In The Middle East, everybody: Israeli Minister of Communications has begun the process of shutting down Israeli paper Haaretz for being “anti-patriotic” when it revealed that Israeli Helicopters were responsible for killing civilians on Oct. 7th. Many eye witness accounts confirmed this only days after Oct 7.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-23/ty-article/israels-communications-minister-threatens-haaretz-suggests-penalizing-its-war-coverage/0000018b-fd0c-de73-a9bb-ffefb9f10000
Show threadFardels BearNov 25, 2023

@KevinCarson1

Another similarity between Netanyahu and Putin. Both are occupying territory that doesn't belong to them, murdering civilian populations, and threatening media outlets that don't toe the government line.

Show threaddatenritter Nov 25, 2023
@riggbeck @KevinCarson1 Ahem. Israel occupies what exactly? You might want to check your maps.
Show threadJorgeNov 27, 2023

@datenritter This is a map of the West Bank elaborated by UN in 2020: https://www.ochaopt.org/sites/default/files/westbank_a0_25_06_2020_final.pdf

It counts more than 600k settlers, and includes military bases, roads prohibited to palestinians, and "Area C" (Full Israeli control over security, planning and construction). According to Wikipedia, Area C comprises 61% of the West Bank land.

Show threaddatenritter Nov 27, 2023

@jalda Yeah, that settlement bullshit should stop.

I find the comparison to Putin bizarre though. Ukraine never wanted to drive Russia into the sea, nor did they fail to control their own territory or even to sign a contract. Neither did Israel wipe complete cities of the map.

Anyway, I understand how you'd consider this an occupation.

Show threadJorgeNov 27, 2023
@datenritter Putin has his own selection of bullshit excuses, from Ukraine being full of nazis to being secretly developing biological and chemical weapons. When you want to justify an occupation and mass killing, finding a bullshit excuse is literally the easiest part.
Show threaddatenritter Nov 28, 2023
@jalda Beeing killed by the millions looks like a good excuse to me. It is no surprise, Israel defends itself so decisively and violently. And yes, radical forces grow in this environment.
Show threaddatenritter Nov 28, 2023
@jalda Putin does not have any legitimate reason. Also his state is literally the opposite of Israel with the widest land mass of all states while Israel is kind of a thin beach. Again: Simplification and equalization of actions of dictators/terrorists with acts of self-defence is not okay.
Show threadJorgeNov 28, 2023

@datenritter We agree that Putin doesn't have any legitimate reason, I thought "bullshit excuses to justify an occupation and mass killing" was clear enough.

But I find highly concerning that you think being "kind of a thin beach" is a legitimate reason. Google Lebensraum maybe?

Show threaddatenritter Nov 28, 2023
@jalda I don't have to google it. The "Lebensraum im Osten" idea is part of the antisemitic, mass-murdering ideology of the Nazi regime. The very same that killed millions of Jews, many of them in the area thought to be the "Lebensraum" for "Arians". The experience of near annihilation is what shaped Israel. It is literally the foundation. And it's considered antisemitic to suggest Israel would do "the same" now. It might backfire most terribly, because: How many Arab organisations do you know that officially want or wanted to drive the Jews "into the sea"?
Show threadJorgeNov 28, 2023

@datenritter Minister without Portfolio Gideon Sa’ar has suggested annexing parts of Gaza.

Gamliel’s ministry circulated a paper on expelling the population of Gaza into the Sinai desert.

Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter said that Israel is “rolling out the Gaza Nakba.”

Minister of Heritage Amichai Eliyahu has threatened to hand over Gaza’s land to former Israeli settlers and current Israeli soldiers.

Israel's officially position is to drive Palestinians "into the sea"

Show threadJorgeNov 28, 2023
@datenritter This isn't about the self-defense of Israel. This is about them needing more land (because Israel is a "thin beach") and grabbing it by force at the cost of the lives of the "human animals" that live in Gaza.
Show threadJorgeNov 28, 2023
@datenritter Or maybe it is also antisemitic to point out that the portrayal of Palestinians by Israeli ministers as "human animals" is the same as the portrayal of Jews by Hitler as "vermin"?
Show threadJorgeNov 28, 2023
@datenritter My idea of "Not Again" is that it applies no matter who is the perpetrator. Yours seems to be that the victims of the past have the right to become the perpetrators in the present, and that clears them of any criticism.
Show threaddatenritter Nov 28, 2023

@jalda No, Israel's government is by no means immune to criticism. LOL.

Seriously, that's a myth.

Just because YOUR criticism is… well, criticized, doesn't mean there is nothing valid to say. Some of the criticism is just antisemitic, based on myths, propaganda, cherry picking, oversimplification etc.

Show threadJorge
@datenritter All of my criticism was based on the military actions and public declarations of Israeli officials. I have made no mention of religious or ethnic motives. I have made similar criticism (including in this conversation) about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Does it make me anti-slavic in addition to antisemitic?
Nov 28, 2023 at 10:55amWeb