I don’t think peace is possible when one side is holding the other in an open air prison and giving them only the amount of calories needed to not die (after the war started even that was suspended)

Yeah, that’d be crazy if it was happening.

Surprise: It's not. They're giving them less than the amount they need not to starve.

So, who’s responsibility is it to feed them?

Is it Egypt’s since they were the previous owners of the land before Israel took it in a war started by Egypt? How about the UN? It’s not like they literally have an entire organization whose sole purpose is to provide aid to the Palestinians.

Oh? It’s solely Israel? Israel is solely responsible for the welfare of a people where the majority want to genocide them? Not Egypt or the UN? Not Hamas? Not the PLO? Only Israel?

Either put some fucking pressure on your own country and the UN to step the fuck up and provide real aid, or fuck off.

So, who’s responsibility is it to feed them?

Their military occupiers, Israel. Or maybe the people blockading them and actually controlling how much aid goes in and how much they can import (with their meagre economy since they're not allowed to export their goods), which is also Israel.

I’m sorry, but I think you forgot to read my post and any of the links I sarcastically provided. Let me just copy and paste it below for you. Just trying to help a smoothbrain tankie out since you don’t seem to understand the concepts of the international aid, ports, and land borders.

So, who’s responsibility is it to feed them?

Is it Egypt’s since they were the previous owners of the land before Israel took it in a war started by Egypt? How about the UN? It’s not like they literally have an entire organization whose sole purpose is to provide aid to the Palestinians.

Oh? It’s solely Israel? Israel is solely responsible for the welfare of a people where the majority want to genocide them? Not Egypt or the UN? Not Hamas? Not the PLO? Only Israel?

Either put some fucking pressure on your own country and the UN to step the fuck up and provide real aid, or fuck off.

How about this: It’s solely unrwas responsibility, but anyone who specifically bombs unrwa resources has to take over fully?

How about this. It’s the responsibility of the government in charge, Hamas to consider the feeding and care of it’s citizens as a part of its war plan with its neighbors.

Given that the plans that government arranged for are being thwarted by Israel, it seems they are taking steps to reassert their ability to feed their people. I don’t think that’s the best solution here, that Hamas keeps attacking Israel, so I’m looking elsewhere. If you’re content with the way Hamas handles things, by all means, leave them with no humanitarian support or other options.

I don’t think that’s the best solution here, that Hamas keeps attacking Israel, so I’m looking elsewhere.

In normal warfare. When a siege shows that it’s has the ability to starve the populace if continued; it’s the duty of the seiged to surrender before their population starts to starve.

Or to try to escalate. Which do you honestly think Hamas will do?

Honestly, they’re dying. Israel estimates they’ve killed 1/4th of their Army. And based on the things that they’re trying to smuggle in it (oxygen equipment) seems like they might have a significant amount of their forces stuck underground, caved in.

That either makes them fight more desperately or we wait a generation for the surviving Palestinians to grow up and start the fight anew.

We know how this goes, unless Israel makes huge concessions or starts killing even larger numbers of Palestinians

That army was just used offensively against Israel. It must be considered valid to fight it. Those fighters can choose to surrender.

You think they will?

Some will.

But enough to have peace?

At the rate Israel is going? Yes.

Dead men always make peace.

So to summarize: in your opinion, Hamas and Israel are both doing exactly what they should be?

No. Should? No. But are they on a path to peace if they keep fighting? Yes. A cease fire delays eventual peace if the disagreement between to sides is incurable. And at this point it does seem as if it’s incurable.

That’s too cynical for me. Take away offensive military support from Israel and the disagreement may stay uncured, but it won’t kill over 10k people a month

How many people will die in the next conflict though? Or do we just expect Israel to regularly have thousands of citizens murdered and hundreds taken hostage as a regular course of business?

Nobody likes the human casualties. But at this point, the Taliban could take control in Gaza and do a better and more peaceful job.

Palestinian casualties are casualties, and there’s millions of Palestinians whose lives are currently in danger. If not a ceasefire, what do you think is the ideal first step for preventing as many casualties as possible

If not a ceasefire, what do you think is the ideal first step for preventing as many casualties as possible?

In the long run or the short run? If I only care about the casualties in the next 1-3 months; of course I want a ceasefire. I’d be a fool not to. However; if I widen my view to 12 months, 24, 5 years Hamas is going to kill thousands of Gazans a year if left in power. It’s going to kill them by starting more wars, by impoverishing them, by keeping them from accessing the aid that’s being provisioned from them.

Like it’s not like people are heartless. What’s happening in Gaza is horrible and I wish it wouldn’t. But it feels like taking out Hamas’ ability to govern and rule is like taking off a bandaid. It’s best done quickly.

thousands

Again, there are millions of Palestinians currently in danger. Thousands have been killed by Israel in a month. I don’t see how hamas is a larger threat than Israel.

I’m not a fan of Hamas. They’re there because someone hasn’t allowed Palestine to have an election in over a decade. Taking out Hamas’ ability to govern and rule could be done quickly by allowing an election.

I don’t see how hamas is a larger threat than Israel.

If Hamas retains it’s military might, how many more wars causing thousands of casualties a month will happen in the next 5 years?

If Israel agrees to a ceasefire, then allows aid to flow in and new elections to be freely held, Hamas will cause zero wars in the next five years, because they won’t have any power.

What makes you think Hamas wouldn’t win the election?

Hamas ran on an entirely different platform (of moderation) to a different group of voters. Why not see what happens?

Convince the EU to support sanctions until an election. That’s what’s keeping Hamas going.

Netanyahu has been seen sending covert money to Hamas and has been alleged on multiple times to have said that Hamas is good for the Israeli government (which might have been true before October).

Sanctions would simply be an expansion of the siege. Collective punishment is against the Geneva conventions. What grounds are there to sanction a people for having a government they themselves dislike but which they are forbidden from voting out of power? Further, how is that better than organizing a vote? Palestinians will starve to death between then and now, if they’re sanctioned.

You can’t continue to give Hamas more money and claim to support elections in Gaza. Giving them money is defacto support for a non-democratic Gaza Strip.