MicroWaveNov 6, 2023

Sanders says he doesn’t know that a ceasefire is possible ‘with an organization like Hamas’

https://lemmy.world/post/7852566

Sanders says he doesn’t know that a ceasefire is possible ‘with an organization like Hamas’ - Lemmy.World

Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday he doesn’t know that a ceasefire is possible in the Israel-Hamas war with “an organization like Hamas” involved. “I don’t know how you can have a ceasefire, (a) permanent ceasefire, with an organization like Hamas, which is dedicated to turmoil and chaos and destroying the state of Israel,” Sanders told CNN’s Dana Bash on “State of the Union” Sunday.

Show threadkittenzrulz123Nov 6, 2023
I don’t think peace is possible when one side is holding the other in an open air prison and giving them only the amount of calories needed to not die (after the war started even that was suspended)
Show threadCommanderM2192Nov 6, 2023
Yeah, that’d be crazy if it was happening.
Show threadNoneOfUrBusinessNov 6, 2023
Surprise: It's not. They're giving them less than the amount they need not to starve.
Show threadCommanderM2192Nov 6, 2023

So, who’s responsibility is it to feed them?

Is it Egypt’s since they were the previous owners of the land before Israel took it in a war started by Egypt? How about the UN? It’s not like they literally have an entire organization whose sole purpose is to provide aid to the Palestinians.

Oh? It’s solely Israel? Israel is solely responsible for the welfare of a people where the majority want to genocide them? Not Egypt or the UN? Not Hamas? Not the PLO? Only Israel?

Either put some fucking pressure on your own country and the UN to step the fuck up and provide real aid, or fuck off.

History of Gaza - Wikipedia

Show threadNoneOfUrBusinessNov 6, 2023

So, who’s responsibility is it to feed them?

Their military occupiers, Israel. Or maybe the people blockading them and actually controlling how much aid goes in and how much they can import (with their meagre economy since they're not allowed to export their goods), which is also Israel.

Show threadCommanderM2192Nov 6, 2023

I’m sorry, but I think you forgot to read my post and any of the links I sarcastically provided. Let me just copy and paste it below for you. Just trying to help a smoothbrain tankie out since you don’t seem to understand the concepts of the international aid, ports, and land borders.

So, who’s responsibility is it to feed them?

Is it Egypt’s since they were the previous owners of the land before Israel took it in a war started by Egypt? How about the UN? It’s not like they literally have an entire organization whose sole purpose is to provide aid to the Palestinians.

Oh? It’s solely Israel? Israel is solely responsible for the welfare of a people where the majority want to genocide them? Not Egypt or the UN? Not Hamas? Not the PLO? Only Israel?

Either put some fucking pressure on your own country and the UN to step the fuck up and provide real aid, or fuck off.

History of Gaza - Wikipedia

Show threadidiomaddictNov 6, 2023
How about this: It’s solely unrwas responsibility, but anyone who specifically bombs unrwa resources has to take over fully?
Show threadmwguy
How about this. It’s the responsibility of the government in charge, Hamas to consider the feeding and care of it’s citizens as a part of its war plan with its neighbors.
Nov 7, 2023 at 7:10amWeb
Show threadidiomaddictNov 8, 2023
Given that the plans that government arranged for are being thwarted by Israel, it seems they are taking steps to reassert their ability to feed their people. I don’t think that’s the best solution here, that Hamas keeps attacking Israel, so I’m looking elsewhere. If you’re content with the way Hamas handles things, by all means, leave them with no humanitarian support or other options.
Show threadmwguyNov 8, 2023

I don’t think that’s the best solution here, that Hamas keeps attacking Israel, so I’m looking elsewhere.

In normal warfare. When a siege shows that it’s has the ability to starve the populace if continued; it’s the duty of the seiged to surrender before their population starts to starve.

Show threadidiomaddictNov 8, 2023
Or to try to escalate. Which do you honestly think Hamas will do?
Show threadmwguyNov 8, 2023
Honestly, they’re dying. Israel estimates they’ve killed 1/4th of their Army. And based on the things that they’re trying to smuggle in it (oxygen equipment) seems like they might have a significant amount of their forces stuck underground, caved in.
Show threadidiomaddictNov 8, 2023

That either makes them fight more desperately or we wait a generation for the surviving Palestinians to grow up and start the fight anew.

We know how this goes, unless Israel makes huge concessions or starts killing even larger numbers of Palestinians

Show threadmwguyNov 8, 2023
That army was just used offensively against Israel. It must be considered valid to fight it. Those fighters can choose to surrender.
Show threadidiomaddictNov 8, 2023
You think they will?
Show threadmwguyNov 8, 2023
Some will.
Show threadidiomaddictNov 9, 2023
But enough to have peace?
Show threadmwguyNov 10, 2023

At the rate Israel is going? Yes.

Dead men always make peace.

Show threadidiomaddictNov 13, 2023
So to summarize: in your opinion, Hamas and Israel are both doing exactly what they should be?
Show threadmwguyNov 14, 2023
No. Should? No. But are they on a path to peace if they keep fighting? Yes. A cease fire delays eventual peace if the disagreement between to sides is incurable. And at this point it does seem as if it’s incurable.
Show threadidiomaddictNov 14, 2023
That’s too cynical for me. Take away offensive military support from Israel and the disagreement may stay uncured, but it won’t kill over 10k people a month
Show threadmwguyNov 15, 2023

How many people will die in the next conflict though? Or do we just expect Israel to regularly have thousands of citizens murdered and hundreds taken hostage as a regular course of business?

Nobody likes the human casualties. But at this point, the Taliban could take control in Gaza and do a better and more peaceful job.

Show threadidiomaddictNov 15, 2023
Palestinian casualties are casualties, and there’s millions of Palestinians whose lives are currently in danger. If not a ceasefire, what do you think is the ideal first step for preventing as many casualties as possible
Show threadmwguyNov 15, 2023

If not a ceasefire, what do you think is the ideal first step for preventing as many casualties as possible?

In the long run or the short run? If I only care about the casualties in the next 1-3 months; of course I want a ceasefire. I’d be a fool not to. However; if I widen my view to 12 months, 24, 5 years Hamas is going to kill thousands of Gazans a year if left in power. It’s going to kill them by starting more wars, by impoverishing them, by keeping them from accessing the aid that’s being provisioned from them.

Like it’s not like people are heartless. What’s happening in Gaza is horrible and I wish it wouldn’t. But it feels like taking out Hamas’ ability to govern and rule is like taking off a bandaid. It’s best done quickly.

Show threadidiomaddictNov 16, 2023

thousands

Again, there are millions of Palestinians currently in danger. Thousands have been killed by Israel in a month. I don’t see how hamas is a larger threat than Israel.

I’m not a fan of Hamas. They’re there because someone hasn’t allowed Palestine to have an election in over a decade. Taking out Hamas’ ability to govern and rule could be done quickly by allowing an election.

Show threadmwguyNov 17, 2023

I don’t see how hamas is a larger threat than Israel.

If Hamas retains it’s military might, how many more wars causing thousands of casualties a month will happen in the next 5 years?

Show threadidiomaddictNov 17, 2023
If Israel agrees to a ceasefire, then allows aid to flow in and new elections to be freely held, Hamas will cause zero wars in the next five years, because they won’t have any power.
Show threadmwguyNov 17, 2023
What makes you think Hamas wouldn’t win the election?
Show threadidiomaddictNov 14, 2023
I think it’s worth trying to save still and the first step along that path is a ceasefire.