realitistaUS men are dying much earlier than women, as death 'gender gap' widens: Study
The Picard ManeuverThey talk about a few causes, but this is the gist of it for anyone who doesn’t want to click:
Researchers cited the pandemic as the biggest factor in the widening gender gap; it took a heavier toll on men. Unintentional injuries and poisonings (mostly drug overdoses), accidents and suicide were other contributors.
takedaThat’s because in addition to the disinformation, many men also have to do the macho thing: youtu.be/1chYhsp3NRw
Bill Burr on Quarantine, Destroys Joe Rogan's take on not wearing a mask.
mriormroI forgot that suicide was super macho.
NepentheI warned my ex when it was just beginning to be understood back in March 2020, and his exact response was, "It's not like I'm going to die." He says, occupying every high risk category except "immunocompromised."
So yeah, apparently.
Fat TonySo … did he make it?
I remember when I was growing up my parents were always saying “son you better kill yourself if you want to get married.” And on wrestling night, Randy Savage used to stand up on the turnbuckles and shout “AFTER THIS, MACHO MAN IS GONNA BLOW HIS BRAINS OUT.” He was a big role model for me.
“son you better kill yourself if you want to get married.”
I think I’m missing something, is this supposed to make sense? You can’t get married if you’re dead afaik
They're being facetious by imagining if intentional suicide was part of male culture in the same way excessive risk taking is.
Fuck Joe Rogan. At some level I want to say “if you are really going to take advice from Joe Rogan and other idiots online, Darwin will just be checking off posthumous boxes,” but I’ve seen too many family members be trapped and warped by social media into believing garbage that I realize it’s the fault of the system. People have always profited off of needless human death, it’s way worse though when it’s a podcaster spewing garbage.
Americans also just generally live shorter lives than people in other developed countries:
Still is, men are still dying more from Covid and in excess deaths from related conditions that are elevated like heart attacks and strokes.
ParsnipWitchThere are also studies that show men are less likely to got to a doctor or they go to late. In part that is because most male bodies tend to take longer before heavy symptoms are coming up but then they progress faster.
It has something to do with differences in immune system of men and women. When for example a man and a woman are infected with the same amount of viruses the women’s immune system will react faster so she gets symptoms earlier and goes to the doctor earlier as well. The man won’t have any symptoms but then the infection will suddenly progress fast when a critical amount of viruses is reached.
It’s of course more complex and there are tons of studies about it, but I think that’s something to keep in mind “in practice”.
This comes on top of the gender stereotypes which make some men shun the doctor.
Holy shit. That makes it even more problematic that many men tend to avoid going to the doctor. They essentially have less time once they do show symptoms. :(
You have any sources for that? Never heard of thos before; sounds interesting.
There are different studies depending on the pathogen or diesease. But this one describes some of the more general effects I mean:
Sex differences in immune responses
Paywalled, but it provides a good list of additional sources via it’s references and list of articles that cite it: The influence of sex and gender on the immune response
Sex differences in immune responses - Nature Reviews Immunology
In this Review the authors discuss some of the key differences that exist between male and female immune functions. They explain how these differences lead to sex biases in susceptibility to infections, inflammatory diseases and cancer. Moreover, they highlight the urgent need for immunologists to consider these sex differences when designing experiments.
Men trend more conservative than women overall (6 in 10 committed conservatives are men - pew) so more of them probably fell for the disinformation and denialism during the pandemic. Yes, we know that Republicans died more from COVID, to the tune of 15% more excess deaths.
4. Committed Conservatives
Though most voted for Donald Trump in 2020, they are less likely than some other conservative typology groups to back a run in 2024. Committed Conservatives hold pro business views traditionally associated with the Republican Party, have favorable attitudes about international trade and favor a limited role of government.
I’m a bit concerned about using the “gender gap” term. As in, I wonder if it’s going to get adopted by misogynists to pit women’s suffering (gender pay gap) against men’s suffering (gender lifespan gap).
They’ll do that either way.
That’s too bad.
It is certainly telling that your first reaction isn’t about the real subject of the study.
Maybe you’re right, I’m sorry. It was just a first thought, and I’m trying to put thoughts out there on Lemmy less sensors to get convos going. Maybe this was an inappropriate one though and I can certainly choose better choices moving forward!
No worries. If you spend your life worrying what dickheads will think, you won't make any societal progress.
Lol this guy is shamelessly accepting your apology and dismissing any potential issues on behalf of someone else 😂
The person has already apologized for an unintentional slight. What exactly is there left to do except accept it and move on?
You don’t accept an apology on behalf of someone else implying it was unnecessary. It’s dishonest at best.
It was a faux pas in a public conversation. Not something personally offensive to a particular individual. Fucking chill.
I called you out because it didn’t seem like a mistake. I answered your question calmly when you appeared to double down.
My comment was mostly to show others that it was someone else accepting the apology.
I said 'no worries' because in normal contexts, you'd be right in that there is no issue. But in gender discussions both sides aren't accepting of commentary that switches focus to the other gender, but you may not know that if you don't join in on them often.
Obviously I can't speak for the person they responded to, nor the people reading these messages for that matter, but I can try and be reasonable. What reasonable person is going to want to do anything other than bury the hatchet after an honest mistake?
Ok. Fyi I have not be trying to be confrontational after my first response. I don’t think you need to provide further justification after you said it was a mistake. Personally I think the issue was settled with your admission. I don’t mean to berate you. I should have made that clearer on my second response.
remoteloveThere is one constant with assholes: Any term or phrase can be used against someone else. It really doesn’t matter what. When someone has an agenda to degrade another group of people, anything can be used as a weapon. The specifics have no meaning.
As far as your concern about this being used against someone else, sure. The most likely scenario is that this is picked up by some kind of partisan taking head and rebroadcast on a grander scale.
Turn of phrase.
Eggcorn!
lady_mariaHuh? “Term or phrase” makes way more sense.
Idk… “term or phrase” works at least as well as well imo.
if feminism has taught us nothing else (and it hasn't) the only way to bridge this gap is to bring women down to our level not raise men up.
Captain AggravatedNo, the way this works is the problem will go unsolved and probably even unaddressed until someone explains how men dying early is a problem for women. Then it’ll get attention. It’s not a real problem until it hurts women–the real victims.
So… you expect women to solve a problem made by men for men? How novel.
Society does not perceive “men are suffering” as a problem, is my point.
I think we very much do understand it's a problem and there is not a whole lot women can do about it that we aren't already doing. The majority of feminists would love for men to see a fucking therapist. They keep fighting it tooth and nail, though.
They'll either not open up at all for fear of being judged, or they'll ONLY lean on the women in their life. The one or two women in their life, because in my anecdotal experience they don't seem to stick around women they can't sleep with.
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You guys want and desperately need actual emotional support, but you seemingly refuse to support each other. When we tell you to so much as just give each other the compliments you're looking for, it's met with whining because the respondents want women to do it.
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A lot of men are so beat to shit from such an early age that they can't even put a name to a lot of emotions besides anger. Which causes them to be both unable to manage what they can barely explain, and to feel significantly uncomfortable (outmatched) in marriage counseling, watching their wife run circles around them.
But biting the bullet and improving on emotional literacy via counseling and/or self-study and deep reflection never seems to strike the fancy. Their date has to teach them. And they WILL be fighting every step of the way.
- I would love to date someone who doesn't define their entire existence through their job. That's nearly the entire reason two out of my four relationships fell to pieces.
-I- didn't give a shit. I met one of them when we were both homeless and said yes anyway. But if I made more money or they got laid off at any point, both of them would have a months-long binge drinking breakdown regardless of what I said.
You know you could just stop, right? That's what's incredibly frustrating about this for me. A lot of problems that are specific to men seem to be an issue of self-image, and are thus self-imposed, and you could just. Stop.
I can't make anyone not pick me up by the throat, but any day you could just wake up and decide your paycheck doesn't actually fucking matter and never date someone who thinks it does.
You could be excruciatingly nice to people for no reason instead of demanding women do it, work out what's going on with you and tell people about it, and give them both barrels if they think a human being needing help is gay.
As much as I feel for men as a group, it's the empathetic part that makes me want to hold them upside down and shake them till the sense falls out. Take. Care of each other. Fix the thing.
It’s kinda sad that when men have problems, they’re just expected to solve it themselves.
Words like “self-imposed” are just thrown around to handwave their issues away. But no one asks why the men think this way. Are women completely blameless?
How would women react if men were to say the lack of female representation in STEM is “self-imposed” and that women should just stop not applying for those jobs because of fear. It’s unrealistic right?
Glad to see both sides argued here, both legitimate points. Sorry for my pointless comment.
No, it ain’t sad at all. It’s infuriating. Men aren’t just having these problems. They are perpetuating them after having created them.
It’s the misogyny, sure. But also the xenophobia, homophobia, racism, religious extremism, warmongering, gun humping, and whatever else makes these dudes vote for the most conservative and/or biggest asshole they can find.
The same crap makes other people, including the women in their lives, not want to be around them. And of course that government they voted in ain’t going to offer any assistance as whatever calamities they’re forced themselves to face alone, inevitably hit.
abbotsburyThey are perpetuating them after having created them.
You are victim blaming, men born this millennium have had zero part in creating them.
Of course, it’s always their own fault, if it makes you able to sleep at night.
How would women react if men were to say the lack of female representation in STEM is “self-imposed”
To be fair, people are saying this all the time. Look up a Lemmy post about struggles of women. Ok, that was a rhetoric task because you won’t find any with a significant amount of upvotes. But if you do, there will be plenty of people arguing that women should care for this themselves. Or discussing how bad it is for men, instead.
Yeah, no. I haven’t heard this rhetoric since 2018.
The majority of feminists would love for men to see a fucking therapist.
The majority of feminists would love for men to suffer and die and will say so in as many words, has been my experience.
But moving beyond that, therapy is a lazy, bullshit answer to the problem, for a number of reasons, a few of them being insurance.
The majority of men are not mentally ill, aka they don’t suffer from a diagnosable disorder. Insurance won’t pay for “Apparently I need non-specific therapy.”
…If he has insurance that would cover mental health services, which many men don’t.
Have you ever been to a therapist? I have. They just ask pointless question after pointless question. “How did that make you feel?” “Bad.” “Why did it make you feel bad?” “…Why did being screamed at by my boss make me feel bad? That’s what you’re asking right now?” “Does that bother you?” They purposefully do not solve problems.
A lot of men are so beat to shit from such an early age that they can’t even put a name to a lot of emotions besides anger.
Who beats men to shit from such an early age? The majority of the people providing early childhood care are women. Elementary and middle school teachers, babysitters, daycare workers, hell, because of how pointlessly cruel the family court system is in this country, it’s difficult to legally be a father. Men are systematically prevented from raising children. Men have been arrested for taking their children to play in the park. Men get accused of pedophilia for existing near children.
Remember the sitcom Home Improvement, starring Tim Allen as Tim Taylor? There was an early episode that starts up with his sons playing with a few neighborhood kids, one of his kids (whichever one was played by Johnathan Taylor Thomas, remember him?) had an ordinary deck of cards, and was apparently using it to tell “fortunes.” The ace of spades was the “death card.” Well apparently he drew the “death card” on one of the neighborhood boys, and this scared him. He comes running in the house crying, and Tim immediately rushes over, hugs the boy, rubs his back and goes to ask what’s wrong, offer comfort, “It’s just a game, you’re not going to die.”
Wholesome little scene, right? Made me physically uncomfortable. Because if I was seen acting that way toward a young boy, I would be accused of molesting him. I have been so sexualized, my touch has been so sexualized, that I’m only allowed to touch people who intend to fuck me. I absolutely will not be seen hugging a child, even those related to me, because I don’t want to end up on a list.
Early childcare is almost entirely the domain of women, and little boys emerge from this, in your words, “so beat to shit.” It’s his fault though, right? He should figure it out and fix it?
I would love to date someone who doesn’t define their entire existence through their job.
Judging by what women say, they want a man who earns a lot of money, who doesn’t spend a lot of time at work, who has time for hobbies but doesn’t play video games, go to the gym, engage in sports, play with train sets or has a boat/motorcycle/dirt bike/whatever, and who doesn’t just hang around the house. The only creature real or fictional I’m aware of that fits within this criteria is Janet from The Good Place.
Society absolutely perceives that. We can hardly help perceiving it when men are gunning us down, beating us to a pulp, and demanding our constant attention.
The thing is it’s a problem that society can’t solve. Only men can solve it.
How do you expect men to solve a problem made by a tiny fraction of people, mostly rich men but also rich women?
Remember, “Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat.” -Hillary Clinton.
Oof that’s messed up. And I’d totally agree if she were just acknowledging that war affects women for those reasons, but it’s bonkers to compare and call women “the primary victims.”
It wasn’t even a year ago that the un was making statements about how war affected women disproportionately when their husbands die in war. It was quite offensive
Even comparing the two issues that you brought up is ridiculous to me. Issue 1, women make slightly less in some situations for some jobs. Issue 2, men die earlier than women. These two issues are not even in the same realm of seriousness and urgency to solve.
I’d stop worrying about misogyny and start with some reflection on your own misandrist values.
Fucking hell, this pisses me off.
Lol, right? It would be funny if it weren’t so depressingly common a response.
“Something bad is happening to men”
“I think we should focus on how that affects women.”
Exactly. It’s like if your good friend came to you and told you they have cancer then you respond by saying, “oh that’s nice, I sat wrong and my leg fell asleep, shouldn’t you be caring about my leg???”
That’s fine. My job as a man is to die first. Is that toxic masculinity? Yes. Is it stupid? Also yes. But I’d rather die on my lawnmower than acknowledge feelings. I will go out 6 years early like a man.
I will work 12hr days and sacrifice my health for my family. Toxic maybe, but my duty as a man.
I’ll eat that 12oz sirloin, wash it down with three beers and a whiskey every night just so someone doesn’t call me gay no matter how many dudes I fuck in the ass.
NeilI will poop while also screaming like a true man. Real men poop and scream at the same time. I’ll be a real man… pooping and screaming… yeah… yeah I like that. I like that a lot.
wabafee