ArazilChakotay: "Captain, I don't understand."
Janeway: "Neither do I... But the script demands it."
-Overheard towards the end of #SacredGround on #StarTrekVoyager
StarkRG@arazil @allstartrek I wouldn't even be surprised if that was a flub by Kate Mulgrew and they left it in. She was better at the technobabble than the original Janeway, but still managed/-s to complain/joke about it every chance she got/gets.
@StarkRG @allstartrek I tweaked the quote a bit for comedic effect but the overall idea was the same. I get the message that the show was trying to play off of (e.g. "faith manages") but the script itself quickly devolves into vague spiritual/treknobabble nonsense.
sezduck@arazil @StarkRG @allstartrek I’m not quite sure what the message was supposed to be with this episode. It seems to be saying, “sometimes you need to ignore science and just have faith” which is a dangerous message and not very “Star Trek.”
In 2023, we have too many people who take that approach with regards to vaccines, climate change, gun violence, etc.
WTF Voyager?
@sezduck @StarkRG @allstartrek I also agree with that. It's also the primary point of Chuck's Opinionated Voyager Episode Guide review for that episode.
Kevin C 🎬@arazil @sezduck @StarkRG @allstartrek
Eh, it's the usual message - some things defy explanation and you have to accept them on faith.
Except, these Spirit beings were gonna let Kes die if #Janeway didn't accept their eventual direction to "kill Kes". The writers here are probably the same clowns that tried to make Q a "guiding" force in the end, when in fact he was always just a kid with an ant farm.
#AllStarTrek #StarTrekVoyager #SacredGround
NiColesStreetPothole@kcarr2015 @arazil @sezduck @StarkRG @allstartrek
It reminds me of what I would call the "Scully" episodes of X-Files, which would lean heavily into her religious faith. Those worked better than this VOY episode, which seems like tossing a poorly cobbled together bone to viewers of faith. In the end, it doesn't make the "church" look very good, or the "faith" very strong or rewarding. And that final scene with the doctor was infuriating.
It reminds me of what I would call the "Scully" episodes of X-Files, which would lean heavily into her religious faith. Those worked better than this VOY episode, which seems like tossing a poorly cobbled together bone to viewers of faith. In the end, it doesn't make the "church" look very good, or the "faith" very strong or rewarding. And that final scene with the doctor was infuriating.
@ColesStreetPothole @kcarr2015 @arazil @sezduck @allstartrek DS9 did religion *way* better than any Trek I've seen so far. It's respectful without being heavy-handed the way a lot of sci-fi religious commentary is. Yes, the Prophets can be considered non-corporeal, non-temporal alien creatures, but they're also powerful enough that you can just as easily read them as the gods Bajorans believe them to be. They also generally have Bajor's best interest in mind when they choose to act.
@StarkRG @kcarr2015 @arazil @sezduck @allstartrek Totally agree. DS9 is still kind of hand-wavy on some aspects of the Prophets—how can a TV show accurately depict what are indeed some sort of supreme beings?—but they did a great job showing how faith operates in Bajoran society, how it can be abused by those seeking power, and how individuals like Kira struggle with their faith at times.
@StarkRG @kcarr2015 @arazil @sezduck @allstartrek Special footnote for TOS "Errand of Mercy"—the Prophets remind me in some ways of the Organians, powerful energy beings trying to keep lesser beings on the right path.
@ColesStreetPothole It's been a long while since I saw that episode, but the Prophets seem less hands-on (at least until Sisko starts making demands). They provide visions through the orbs but they tend to be short and vague, otherwise they don't have much interaction at all.
@StarkRG Yeah the Organians operate by taking on human form, rather than through an intermediary. The latter way is much more interesting, because it leaves a lot of room for doubt as to who is a true spokesperson, and even who are the true "gods" toward the series conclusion.
@ColesStreetPothole @StarkRG @kcarr2015 @arazil @allstartrek 100%
DS9’s season 1 finale “In the Hands of the Prophets” comes to mind as an episode that handled this extremely well.
@sezduck @StarkRG @kcarr2015 @arazil @allstartrek Kai Winn is such a strong villain character, I keep forgetting it's Louise Fletcher, who played Nurse Ratched. 😆
@ColesStreetPothole @sezduck @kcarr2015 @arazil @allstartrek And, for someone so adept at playing horrible people, she seemed to be such a kind soul.
Louise Fletcher Wins Best Actress: 48th Oscars (1976)
@StarkRG @sezduck @kcarr2015 @arazil @allstartrek
🥺 Yeah, makes me want to unearth some of her lesser-known stuff.
Took the cameraman a few moments to pull back so folks at home could see her signing.
@StarkRG @ColesStreetPothole @kcarr2015 @arazil @allstartrek “Well it looks like you all hated me so much that you’ve given me this award for it. And I’m loving every minute of it.”
I love this! Thanks for sharing the video!
@ColesStreetPothole @StarkRG @kcarr2015 @arazil @allstartrek Man, DS9 had so many 𝘢𝘮𝘢𝘻𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘭𝘺 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘥 recurring guest stars. Louise Fletcher, Andrew Robinson, Aron Eisenberg, Jeffrey Combs, Marc Alaimo, Casey Biggs, etc.
Winn was 𝘀𝗼 convincingly detestable. Such a testament to Louise Fletcher’s performance (and the writing of course).
@sezduck @StarkRG @kcarr2015 @arazil @allstartrek Indeed—they created, wrote for, and developed characters across the entire series arc in a way that few series do, before or since. As much as I love #VOY—which tried—it cannot match #DS9 in this regard. And to continue that list, Penny Johnson Jerald, Wallace Shawn, Aron Eisenberg, J. G. Hertzler—they all brought such life and joy to their characters. 🥰
Bryan McElveen