MarkNov 2, 2023
Timnit Gebru (she/her).

CNN talks about Palestinian deaths like its a natural disaster.

"Palestinian American family mourns 42 relatives killed in a single day in Gaza"

How exactly were they killed CNN? Was it an earthquake? A flood? Some sort of natural disaster? The number of videos I've seen of Palestinians who have lost entire generations of their families because they were bombed in their homes, facing western journalists with absolutely no empathy for them, is sickening.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/world/palestinian-american-family-relatives-killed-gaza/index.html

Nov 1, 2023 at 11:38pmWeb
Show threadTimnit Gebru (she/her).Nov 1, 2023
A computer science professor was talking about his family member who was shot by IDF in the West Bank, and he had to preface that by saying "Hamas is not in the West Bank." The only thing another one of my fellow computer scientists had to say was "That's not true, there are many Hamas supporters in the West Bank." The dehumanization is so deep.
Show threadWesley FaulknerNov 1, 2023
@timnitGebru What the actual hell.
Show threadTom Bellin Nov 1, 2023
@timnitGebru Seeing the IDF murdering innocent people without repercussions might have something to do with the radicalization of the population. Just thinking out loud.
Show threadRichardNov 2, 2023
@tob @timnitGebru I don't really like that excuse. It can be claimed by any side in a conflict and is a justification for continually escalating, eye-for-eye vengeance.
Show threadTom Bellin Nov 2, 2023

@richard_merren @timnitGebru It's not an excuse. No one should support Hamas.

It's an explanation. One that accepts that people who support our enemies may have reasons that aren't evil.

If we refuse to accept any possibility that regular people might see Hamas as the "good guys" in this fight, then we will never be able to find a way through to peace.

Show threadHat. AuDHD cat ๐Ÿ˜ท๐ŸŒบ๐Ÿ‰๐ŸŒป๐Ÿ”ปNov 2, 2023
@tob @richard_merren @timnitGebru both sides are my enemies. The State of Israel simply has the kind of protection that NO state should have
Show threadAlexander The 1stNov 2, 2023
@tob @richard_merren @timnitGebru Right - I'm reminded that this seemed to be the issue in Afghanistan: "We occupied the government, and we've pushed out the Taliban, but every time we kill an Al-Qaeda target, the way we did it seemed to create about 5-10 more members for their efforts because we also took out innocents by accident in the process. Maybe the drone striking approach isn't as effective as we think it is...".
Show threadTom Bellin Nov 2, 2023

@AT1ST @richard_merren @timnitGebru The parallels with 9/11 and America's response to that attack are concerning. Looking back at those events should serve as a "what not to do" playbook.

As with 9/11, I fear the domestic political situation (and the desire to avoid being held responsible) is driving their decisions. Bibi feels he has to be seen as doing something.

Show threadRichardNov 2, 2023
@tob @timnitGebru That is an entirely different statement than the one above, kind of an opposite statement. I agree with this one entirely, and I hope you are giving this benefit of the doubt to everyone. involved.
Show threadTom Bellin Nov 2, 2023

@richard_merren @timnitGebru It's interesting that from my perspective both statements are entirely consistent.

In fact, the only reason I made the first statement is because I am so confident in the second statement.

But I can see that without the further context from my second post, how what I said could sound like I'm rooting for the radicalized elements.

Show threadRichardNov 2, 2023
@tob @timnitGebru I am not accusing you of rooting for any radicalized elements, and start from the assumption that you are a decent human who wishes harm to nobody. I think this type of short statement medium, while satisfying for expressing ourselves, rachets towards miscommunication too easily and we are just talking past each other.
Show threadRichardNov 2, 2023
@tob @timnitGebru I think your initial post raised my hackles as just a little pithy and insensitive, but I am certain you are not rooting for anything horrible and don't want to continue a conversation where anyone feels they are being accused of that.
Show threadTom Bellin Nov 2, 2023
@richard_merren @timnitGebru I didn't feel accused. I think the pithiness comes from a general feeling of exasperation and helplessness.
Show threadRichardNov 2, 2023
@tob @timnitGebru Same.
Show threadHat. AuDHD cat ๐Ÿ˜ท๐ŸŒบ๐Ÿ‰๐ŸŒป๐Ÿ”ปNov 2, 2023
@richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru it isn't an excuse.
Its an acknowledgement that human nature exists.
October 7th was an atrocity committed by Hamas.
The state of Israel is committing genocide against Palestinian civilians
Both sides are doing horrific things
But if you leave out the crimes committed by idf you really CANNOT condemn the crimes committed in retaliation.
Show threadAndrocatNov 2, 2023

@CatHat @richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru

What is missing from this analysis is that Hamas is a very useful tool for Netanyahu.

You will perhaps recall that Israel unilaterally released a whole bunch of Hamas fighters some 20 years ago, directly leading to the split of Palestinian leadership between Hamas rule in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank.

And then, usefully, Netanyahu gave Hamas independent funding in the form of frozen funds from Qatar.

Hamas does horrible shit, and that gives Netanyahu the opportunity to "strike back".
Netanyahu wants them to do horrible shit.

Show threadHat. AuDHD cat ๐Ÿ˜ท๐ŸŒบ๐Ÿ‰๐ŸŒป๐Ÿ”ปNov 2, 2023
@androcat @richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru
true. Genocide was always the plan. And unless im very mistaken, Netanyahu was definitely one of the ones planning it all along.
Show threadmike805Nov 3, 2023

@androcat @CatHat @richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru This sounds like the "enemy of the enemy is my friend" strategy. Trying to get Hamas and other factions to fight among themselves rather than fight Israel.

That turned out just about as well as winding up the Afghan jihadis to fight Russia did for the USA.

Isn't there some ancient Jewish wisdom about creating golems and how they tend to turn around and stomp on the rabbi doing the magic?

Show threadRichardNov 3, 2023
@mike805 @androcat @CatHat @tob @timnitGebru I think most of the golem stories are just about creating them to do household chores. You're thinking of Mary Shelley.
Show threadAndrocatNov 3, 2023

@CatHat @richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru

And like with voting, people who criticize non-violent resistance really need to explain why the far right spends so much time and blood on undermining the organizations capable of nonviolent resistance.

Fatah is the sole inheritor of the peace process. Israel's far right cannot deal with that, so they had to invent a different enemy to face.

Show threadHat. AuDHD cat ๐Ÿ˜ท๐ŸŒบ๐Ÿ‰๐ŸŒป๐Ÿ”ปNov 3, 2023
@androcat @richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru true although i don't think nonviolence would work given the genocidal attitude of the occupiers.
Hamas was propped up to give people like Netanyahu an excuse
Show threadAndrocatNov 3, 2023

@CatHat @richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru
But it was quite a big gamble, to openly create a monster, in full view of the public.

That does seem to indicate that they could not have driven their agenda without the provocations that Hamas have been delivering as if paid to do so.

If Fatah had been the only voice for Palestine, tens of thousands of palestinian lives might not have been lost, and the peace process would have remained enshrined, waiting for the spoiled children to return to the table.

It seems to me that this was a risk Netanyahu could not face.

Show threadHat. AuDHD cat ๐Ÿ˜ท๐ŸŒบ๐Ÿ‰๐ŸŒป๐Ÿ”ปNov 3, 2023

@androcat @richard_merren @tob @timnitGebru regardless of what MIGHT have happened

The long term strategy from people like Netanyahu has ALWAYS been aimed at wiping out Palestinians entirely.

Show threadJeremy (ื™ืขืงื‘) ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆNov 2, 2023

@timnitGebru

Absolutely gross.

Show threadmike805Nov 3, 2023
@timnitGebru
Show threadBen RosengartNov 2, 2023
@timnitGebru โ€œIDF-involved bombingโ€
Show threadeestileib (she/hers)Nov 2, 2023

@timnitGebru

CNN is trash now.

Show threadDon-kunNov 2, 2023
@timnitGebru They explain in the article that the cause is not known for sure. What's the problem with that? Do you think empathy is about not checking facts?
Show threadflere-imsaho ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆNov 2, 2023
@Don_kun what other causes do you have in mind? old age? a surprise covid outbreak? don't be shy, speculate!
Show threadDon-kunNov 2, 2023
@mawhrin Failed missile from Hamas or one of the other militias.
Show threadflere-imsaho ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆNov 2, 2023
@Don_kun did you actually fucking read the article, flawed as it is?
Show threadDon-kunNov 2, 2023
@mawhrin Yes.
Show threadMartin S ๐Ÿšฉโค๏ธโœŠ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆNov 2, 2023
@timnitGebru this is so true for many news outlets. Also, donโ€™t let Palestine disappear from your mind. I see a perceived downtick on posts/mentions about Palestine. Are we so fickle we canโ€™t hold space for several human disasters at the same time, that we can only grieve and speak to one thing at the time? Surely we have that capacity? #palestine #ceasefirenow
Show threadflere-imsaho ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆNov 2, 2023

@krampus @timnitGebru yes, we are so fickle; humans can't bear constant influx of terrible news and usually react with withdrawal, or worse, backlash.

we see this every single time a prolonged catastrophe is happening (other examples from last three years: covid and ukraine, and of course climate change-related coverage).

Show threadOzzy โ˜ฎ๏ธNov 2, 2023
@timnitGebru @chargrille
In Australia News Trash (News Corp) have multiple masthead websites.
I checked their landing pages a short time ago, only one site mentions the bombing of a refugee camp.