Ben K-COct 25, 2023
Heather Buchel

Here is my (slightly less unhinged than I expected) musings on the current state of designing for the web.

Generally, I think we lost something when we stopped calling people web designers and forced people to pick a side.

https://heather-buchel.com/blog/2023/10/why-your-web-design-sucks/

It's 2023, here is why your web design sucks.

Exploring the reasons why we no longer have web designers.

Oct 25, 2023 at 1:29amWeb
Show threadHeather BuchelOct 25, 2023
I wish I could do this topic a little more justice, and I did say I probably wasn't going to write anything until work settled down for the year. But here we are! Run-on and broken sentences and all! (probably)
Show threadAstrid SawatzkyOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel
Software development was considered women's work . Typing you know....
Hardware was men's work. Hard=male.

Then the industry found the money is in building software. And suddenly females weren't logical enough anymore to build software (and all the other crap)

We lost a lot when that happened.
Most of the sw pioneers are forgotten. Only a few of these women are mentioned and presented as extraordinary women, because she, as a woman(!!) , was a pioneer.
They all were.

Show threadAstrid SawatzkyOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel
Now we have initiatives for 'girls in tech' so they feel enough courage to dare to intrude into the men's domain of software development.
Really??

Teaching history in IT could help.

/sorry for the rant

Show threadiamdtmsOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel Yes, it is not a new thing been take shape in the past 10 years. jQuery died, frontend design have AI replacement much. Separation between designers and developers clearly visible. Designers remains Figma|Penpot clickers, developers became modern frontend framework OOP coders. Nothing left for HTML|CSS persons. Thank you for the detailed review.
Show threadEthan MarcotteOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel Just me here, but I think you did a hell of a job. Thank you so much for writing this 💜
Show threadsupersoleOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel this is very well put together and captures many situations I’ve either witnessed or been part of 🫣
Design managers not wanting designers to “get dirty”
Designers unable to grow their understanding
Engineers who don’t understand [web] design, desperately throwing yet another framework to the mix as the designer asks for X and they don’t know how to make it happen with web tech (knowing JS != knowing web tech)
…
= Frustration and terrible websites

Sigh. But thank you!

Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Oct 25, 2023
@hbuchel isn't 2010 when Bootstrap was finally released as a stand-alone design framework?
Show threadHeather BuchelOct 25, 2023
@blogdiva Yeah, it was!
Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Oct 25, 2023

@hbuchel the year CSS became cool because it was so convoluted with the javascriptification of every fucking thing on the web.

am literally in the process of tearing down a B5 theme i developed for a new site i hope to have up before the end of the year because FUCK DEM BOOTSTRAP bells and whistles. do we really need 500 THOUSAND LINES OF CSS FOR A FRIGGIN' SITE?!?!?!

am so done with techbros over thinking a hill of web beans. i want it simpler, the way the 3WC gods intended.

Show threadmoved servers ➡ @[email protected]Oct 25, 2023
@blogdiva @hbuchel
and then we had CSS-in-JS! and we had MaterialUI and styled-components and PostCSS. you better understand babel and webpack before you even *think* about making that button a different shade of blue. /s
Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Oct 25, 2023

@smitten @hbuchel

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻

🖕🏾(｀0´)🖕🏾

(•`_´• )

Show threadSolarbird Oct 25, 2023

@blogdiva @smitten @hbuchel ooooOOOoo DOUBLE table-flip

[adds to collection]

Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Oct 25, 2023
@moira @smitten @hbuchel search for kaomojis. that's how i find them.
Show threadSolarbird Oct 25, 2023
@blogdiva @smitten @hbuchel Oh I have a large collection! I just haven't seen the double before :D
Show threadSolarbird Oct 25, 2023

@blogdiva @smitten @hbuchel before this my favourite table-flip variant was Flip Person Not Table

(╯°Д°）╯︵/(.□ . \)

Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Oct 25, 2023
@moira @smitten @hbuchel CTRL + C 😘
Show threadcratermoonOct 25, 2023

@blogdiva @smitten @hbuchel

Please respect tables!
┬─┬ノ(ಠ_ಠノ)

But seriously. I'm not a front-end developer or designer, but I have a bit of a story about unhappiness between designers and front-end developers. In our case, designers "largely cut off from the front-end development role" and exactly the two bullet points you mention in your "system is broken" section.

Show threadWinnie -a11y memberOct 25, 2023
@smitten @hbuchel @blogdiva gish!You are so right!
Show threadjollyrogueOct 25, 2023

@blogdiva For real. Why do I need all of that to style a button? 🤦🏽‍♂️

I’ve been pretty happy with PureCSS plus custom CSS and whatever JS I need.

Of course, I’m happy with my servers/services and don’t want to do frontend work.

@hbuchel

Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Oct 25, 2023

@jollyrogue @hbuchel

"Why do I need all of that to style a button?"

THANK YOU! that's what am talking about!!!

Show threadMike LandersOct 25, 2023

@jollyrogue @blogdiva @hbuchel

"Why do I need all of that to style a button?"

Oh God, this!

I used to be a web developer back in the late 90s up to mid-2000s.

Occasionally I want to knock together a few web pages and get flummoxed when I'm asked to download node.js, then this set of packages and JS frameworks, then the GitHub repository...

By the time your average web developer has got his environment set up I've written 95% of it in bloody Notepad!

Sorry. Old man yelling at clouds.

Show threadcuan_knaggsOct 25, 2023
@ukplissken and then in 6 months when you need to update some text it takes even longer to get the build working again because 14 packages have updates and now nothing works @jollyrogue @blogdiva @hbuchel
Show threadMolly BOct 25, 2023
@mensrea @ukplissken @jollyrogue @blogdiva @hbuchel In contrast, a few months ago I found my 2003 portfolio on a CD and was able to restore it to working condition with nothing more than a few tweaks to modernize the PHP, because inside the PHP it was written in valid (at the time) XHTML and CSS, which--guess what?--still runs in a web browser.
Show threadcuan_knaggsOct 26, 2023
@mjibrower i'm somewhat in awe of the functional optical drive too @ukplissken @jollyrogue @blogdiva @hbuchel
Show threadMolly BOct 26, 2023
@mensrea @ukplissken @jollyrogue @blogdiva @hbuchel My kid is a retro computing nerd and had one handy :-)
Show threadAlistair DavidsonOct 25, 2023
@blogdiva @hbuchel seriously, my new mantra is "it's just a fucking website". Building websites is not meant to be this hard. A wizard containing a series of forms should be simple as all hell.
Show threadbsky: @daniloc.xyzOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel so fucking well said

A microcosmic diagnosis of so many ills rusting away at our business. Thanks for writing this

Show threadJoshua IzOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel This is great.

Since code and design are inextricably linked — even more so now with JS frameworks — I think it is imperative for designers to understand at least some code. And for developers to have a handle of core design concepts.

Agreed we have lost a lot of what "web design" was. To fold it into code was a control thing and we have suffered for it.

Show threadruffinOct 25, 2023

@joshuaiz @hbuchel Worse than that. Tooling increasingly seems to want to tilt the amalgam that is “front-end” towards silly minutiae that isn’t front-end development & design at all.

“Vite is so hot right now” - & if you don’t agree, you can’t play front-end dev, actual skills be damned.

Tooling is a power-play, a needless graft to distract from the job our users wish we were doing, creating barriers to entry for those that don’t speak 1337.

Prove me wrong. 😉

Show threadEgor KloosOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel I decided not to pick a side. I just got stuck in the middle. I’m happy where I am. Turns out that’s where I should be.

https://dutchcelt.nl/posts/the-gap/

The Gap

Creating design systems and implementing the design in web applications and websites is often deceptively hard. Why? There is this Gap.

Show threadMax Fenton (defunct)Oct 25, 2023
@hbuchel This tracks. ✅
Show threadDan Ryan  (he/she/they)Oct 25, 2023
@hbuchel this is so, so good!
Show threadShib WilloughbyOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel This is *exactly* my experience! I could write a whole essay on it haha.

Started as a web designer in the early 2000s and watched as over the years that role split into two.

And since it split I've struggled to figure out where exactly I belong. I'm not a real designer because I code but I'm not a real developer because I design?

It's at the point now where it's rare to find a job for someone who can do both. The number of times I've been called a "unicorn"... 🙃

Show threadShib WilloughbyOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel Also so many times in my career I've been handed a design to build by a "proper designer" and thought "wow. This person has no idea how to design for the web."

It's almost equal to the number of times I've felt bad about my *own* design for "not being good enough" because I've designed it to work on web and be accessible but I'm "not a proper designer" so it doesn't feel as good.

It's silly. I don't want to pick a side. Just let me do both and don't make me feel bad about it. 😂

Show threadRomain AlberichOct 25, 2023
@shibbles @hbuchel on the opposite, it's very hard to find a unicorn (I've tried, to no avail, but will continue)
Show threadShib WilloughbyOct 25, 2023
@alberich @hbuchel Right? At my last job I tried hiring one and it was impossible to find anyone at all 🥲 Even just finding someone who knew how to do CSS without a library was difficult. I don't think they're teaching it in code schools anymore...
Show threadHaydenOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel Two degrees in HCI and making websites since I was 11 (thanks Neopets!) My experience has been that because I can code I’m lumped into the more “valuable” work of an “engineer” and any design skill is ignored except when another engineer needs to choose a color 😒

My experience has consistently been being treated as “not a real engineer” and “not a real designer.” I’ve always worked in robotics though which is kind of its own microcosm in tech.

Show threadKatie Sylor-MillerOct 25, 2023
@haydencodes @hbuchel yuppppppp this! I’m thankful I got a degree in computer science so that I can pass for a “real” engineer
Show threadJack Coates 🐀Oct 25, 2023
@hbuchel no lies detected
Show threadJon_AlperOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel @lisamelton Setting aside the gendered issues which, being a dude, I can’t really comment on usefully… I think the problem may be we expected designers to code and, maybe worse yet allowed coders to design. While there are exceptions, I think good UI/UX is best done by designers pushing coders rather than coders designing to the limit of their coding skills/deep design interest or, worse, self-corralling to the expectations of ‘standard’ frameworks.
Show threadRuben Borg NielsenOct 27, 2023
@jon_alper @hbuchel @lisamelton this is word for word what I came here to say.
I only got into dev during early 2010s, and never heard of ‘web designers’, but now when we hire, we find that “frontend devs” are JS crazed framework-hyped code quality butchers, and UXers have no clue how the browser works. It really does feel like combining these two camps would allow for much deeper insight, so we could have sensible design AND code that fits into the web technologies
Show threadErin KissaneOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel Hey, do you mind if I QP this?
Show threadHeather BuchelOct 25, 2023
@kissane nope, I don't mind!
Show threadErin KissaneOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel tx!
Show threadPrincess UnikittyOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel
You nailed it with this.

The number of times I have seen people completely unaware of what a design system is and how to apply it is staggering. "Just put it in a tooltip" is like an auto body shop slapping duct tape on a huge crack. Very tired of people not even bothering to *think* about accessibility. Silicon Valley leet coder brainworms have really damaged the web.

Show threadWinnie -a11y memberOct 25, 2023
@unikitty @hbuchel You are spot on! The design systems implementation in modern UI is messed up
Show threadKickstinkOct 25, 2023
@unikitty @hbuchel it’s far too institutionalized that design can ever be “overconfident person brainstorms out the first thing in their head and the process doesn’t need to be complicated or take a lot of time”. As a frontend dev receiving work, I can smell this happening miles away. Show me something tangible that proves you thought it through, or you’re just giving me that work to do myself, after I spend the time on your probable red herring…
Show threadKickstinkOct 25, 2023
@unikitty @hbuchel … Would we have this naive approach to structuring our databases, or making up every API response based on how we felt that day? Of course not, we’d take it seriously and put in the time, effort and skillsets that prevent us from drowning in tech debt next phase. Design and UX are no different. There is not a way to YOLO it.
Show threadPrincess UnikittyOct 25, 2023

@kickstink @hbuchel
As someone who has seen plenty of bugs from (undocumented, unannounced) breaking API changes, I can say that people do indeed YOLO on the back-end.

Not that it *SHOULD* happen. You're totally correct in what you wrote above.

Show threadKickstinkOct 25, 2023
@unikitty @hbuchel sure, that happens, but I can’t help feeling that if I got sloppy with speccing out how I’d like my API responses, someone would take issue with it “sounding hacky” or something straight away, whereas “confident man only thinks in checkboxes and tooltips” seems to be somehow normal at the other side of me 🤷.
Show threadJuliePixelsOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel it’s like you’ve read all my frustrating thoughts for the past 10 years. I now tell ppl I design and build websites and online experiences. I’ve found some roles like Design Technologist that seem to cover being a Web Designer, but sounds more important, I guess.
Show threadchetmanOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel ALL TRUE.
Show threadCaptain ObservantOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel yup, I started out as a web designer and ended up a frontend developer. And it feels sad. I have no say in design, and UX designers in my org have very little clue how the web works (or should work!). And neither do the other developers frankly, they just want to use the most popular framework even if it means shoving gigabytes into the browser before it can render anything. Ugh.
Show threadWinnie -a11y memberOct 25, 2023
@Captainobservant @hbuchel 💯
Show threadjlbecOct 25, 2023

@hbuchel

No lie detected.

Show threadseastardodell ❄️Oct 25, 2023
@hbuchel I feel seen. 🦄
Show threadDaniel DurransOct 25, 2023
@hbuchel @skinnylatte I feel it goes even further than this, even deeper. We lost the webmaster.