Mastodawn

Ben Chase Oct 3, 2023

[EDIT: Ugh, this turns out to be wrong -- it's actually 78% of 11%. See page 89 of https://www.systemiq.earth/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/BreakingThePlasticWave_MainReport.pdf -- misleading representation. 8.5% ain't nothing, but it's nothing like a majority. Thanks to those who replied to correct this!]

The good news: The majority of ocean microplastics come from one source, which means we could dramatically reduce their occurrence by focusing on just one solution.

The bad news: It's car tires. https://www.thedrive.com/news/tire-dust-makes-up-the-majority-of-ocean-microplastics-study-finds

@timmc @acdha the worse news: EVs will make this problem worse, unless we develop a radically different material for tires.

Ariaflame Oct 2, 2023

@joshourisman @timmc @acdha And/or find lighter batteries. And just stop buying oversized cars we don't need to be so big because we're prioritising our 'safety' over other people's or compensating for something. Driving less.

rus Oct 2, 2023

@joshourisman @timmc @acdha alternatively, EVs could be made with smaller (lighter) batteries and less power. Not every car needs to drive like a go cart and go 300 miles in a shot.

There are many ways to solve our transportation problem, but we need to engage with solutions that allow for more then direct replacement of typical cars.

@rusozoll @timmc @acdha yes, but they will still be heavier and torque-ier than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

Tim McCormack Oct 2, 2023

@joshourisman @rusozoll @acdha In a strict comparison yes, although I don't think it's a reason to slow the transition to electric vehicles. I think there's much more benefit from reducing reliance on cars, and pushing for smaller vehicles when needed. (ICE cars have *also* been getting larger and heavier, needlessly!)

@timmc @rusozoll @acdha totally agreed. I have a Rivian R1T pre-order to replace my Chevy Colorado that I should finally be getting in March (for my use case I actually need the largest battery pack, which has slowed things down…).

We should be moving to EVs for people who need cars, and helping to reduce the number of people who do by investing in good public transit. The only reason I even bought the Colorado was to fill the gap when my last truck died until I can take delivery of the Rivian.

CGdoppelpunkt Oct 2, 2023

@joshourisman @timmc @acdha

Or we limit the maximum acceleration of EV.

David Wicks 🇵🇸Oct 2, 2023

@joshourisman @timmc @acdha As an EV driver I can tell you that tyre ware is the same as a fossil car. Have a look at this video for some more info from fleet operators. Time stamp 34:12
https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=YSXXU17zrTZeDpXS

Ex-Top Gear Star Sets Electric Car "Experts" Straight. Shocking Truth About EVs!

YouTube

averagefan Oct 3, 2023

@joshourisman @timmc @acdha What if we used steel instead of rubber? obviously this wouldn't work on concrete roads, but if we laid down some tracks...

LovesTha🥧Oct 2, 2023

@timmc So the solution is trains.

Isn't it always.

CGdoppelpunkt Oct 2, 2023

@LovesTha @timmc

Railways.

Dark Matter Zine Oct 2, 2023

@timmc You’d almost think excellent public transport would solve a lot of the world’s problems instead of small personally-owned vehicles that spend much of their time stationary.

My camera shoots fascists Oct 2, 2023

@DarkMatterZine @timmc

You're obviously an extremist.

/s

There are so, so many good reasons to de-car the world. Now we've got yet another one.

acm Oct 2, 2023

@timmc no wait, doesn't this dovetail with our transit goals??

jpanhans Oct 2, 2023

@timmc okay here me out, we make the tires out of steel... and okay that won't work well with potholes so maybe we make the roads steel too? Idk.. I feel like there is something there.

CGdoppelpunkt Oct 2, 2023

@jpanhans @timmc

Brilliant!

The Turtle Oct 2, 2023

@timmc once again, it goes back to too-many-humans.

Kai Klostermann Oct 2, 2023

@the_turtle @timmc https://www.theworldmind.org/home/2021/12/10/the-dangerous-myth-of-overpopulation

The Dangerous Myth of Overpopulation — The World Mind

Executive Editor Briana Creeley examines the myth of overpopulation and its effects.

The World Mind

Ted Re Oct 2, 2023

@the_turtle @timmc no. Too many cars.

The Turtle Oct 2, 2023

@Tedre123 @timmc ...which of course are owned by humans and don't wander the streets by themselves...

Ted Re Oct 2, 2023

@the_turtle @timmc if you have quality transport options then you don't need to drive

The Turtle Oct 2, 2023

@Tedre123 @timmc but somebody does. You "take buses everywhere" people forget that buses don't go where people need them to go. Invent a damn time machine, go back 130 years and change history, but you can't take a bus or a train most places unless you can afford to waste an entire day doing it. I've timed in in place after place after place.

Tim McCormack Oct 2, 2023

@the_turtle @Tedre123 Right, you'd have to invest a ton in public transit before it could replace cars. And that requires taking away infrastructure and funding for car-based transport, without an immediate replacement. So it has to either be done piecemeal, the way it largely happened with cars eating away at public transit, or in a big China-style "fuck you we're doing this" changeover that uh... gets stuff done, but can hurt a lot of people in the process. It's hard.

Tim McCormack Oct 2, 2023

@the_turtle @Tedre123 Trains are the most difficult option because they require huge infrastructure investment over a long time period.

Buses are kind of middle of the road; they can be deployed relatively quickly and routes can be adjusted as needed. Make them all free to ride and boarding gets *really* efficient and fast.

Separated bike lanes swing back to requiring actual removal of car infrastructure, but can be done fairly piecemeal. Less agile than adding buses, but bikes go *anywhere*.

Zander Oct 2, 2023

@timmc As much as I want more excuses to dunk on cars (and tire dust is still a significant source of microplastics), this is misleading.

The article references the Yale E360 report that misrepresents their source.

It was explained elsewhere on fedi:

The original report says 'Eleven per cent of total plastic entering the ocean in 2016 comes from the four key sources of microplastics we selected to model (tyre dust, pellets, textile micro-fibres, and microplastics in personal care products)' (p89)The 78% figure is 78% of the 11% from those four sources. Not overall.While most plastics enter as macroplastics, they break down into microplastics over time.https://www.systemiq.earth/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/BreakingThePlasticWave_MainReport.pdf https://mastodon.nz/@sy/111140748845462196

Anne Hulbert Oct 2, 2023

@Zander @timmc Well done for checking the sources. I've checked as well and you are correct; the OP has been misled.

Mark Burton Oct 2, 2023

@amokura @Zander @timmc
So, 78% x 11% = 8.58% of ocean microplastics due to tyres.
Still a lot, of course.

Tim McCormack Oct 2, 2023

@Zander Ah crud, thanks. Will edit.

Porquerias | 1312 | 🏴🌵 G@M Oct 2, 2023

@timmc this is a great reason to switch to rail transit, return to streetcars

Aaron Oct 2, 2023

@timmc They're making tires out of metal now. Have you heard of nitinol?

https://www.smarttirecompany.com/

The SMART Tire Company

Reimagining the wheel™ using advanced materials and innovative design. A private company in partnership with NASA.

The SMART Tire Company

Magnus Ahltorp Oct 2, 2023

@hosford42 @timmc They’re called “wheels”, and we use them on these metal roads called “railways”. They’re very efficient. Very low rolling resistance.

Aaron Oct 2, 2023

@ahltorp @timmc Yes, very clever, but I watch trains go by from my front yard daily, so I already know about this type.

Sarcasm aside, they really are making metallic tires that never go flat, capable of traveling to areas that rails don't reach. They're made from coils of nitinol, a shape memory alloy.

Magnus Ahltorp Oct 2, 2023

@hosford42 @timmc That could probably be useful in some way, but the only product that they seem to have is a bike tire, and that is rubber. All the automotive applications have a lot of “will be” in the text, and even then it’s rubber.

Aaron Oct 2, 2023

@ahltorp @timmc It's probably added for the purpose of traction. I bet if they worked on it, they could find alternatives that don't generate microplastics during use.

I do agree with other people (and I suspect you) in the comments here that public transportation in the form of railways is probably a better solution, but it's good to have other tools at our disposal. Also, here in Texas, at least, public transportation is a novelty that isn't available in most places. There's a lot of infrastructure and city planning that goes into the switch, and I don't see that happening anytime soon even if the vast majority of people support it.

Magnus Ahltorp Oct 2, 2023

@hosford42 @timmc One form or another of non-rail transport is needed, but not in the massive scale we have today. And making cars work better is not the priority we need to have now.

If all road-building activity would be redirected to building rail, the current road networks could be used by those who actually need them. Not much rail needs to be built to ease the pressure on roads. This is of course dependent on political will.

Stuart D Neilson Oct 2, 2023

@timmc There are so many false articles based on the Pew report. Tyre dust is 78% of the ocean plastic pollution *from 4 identified sources*, which account for 11% of ocean microplastics.
Tyre dust is about 8.6% of total ocean microplastics, when the unidentified sources are included.

See pp 89-90 of the misquoted report: https://www.systemiq.earth/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/BreakingThePlasticWave_MainReport.pdf

costrike Oct 2, 2023

@timmc I got this. Ban cars.

tone1928 Oct 2, 2023

@timmc An interesting discussion on microplastics. It’s unfortunate that the article focused so much on EVs. My own experience is that overall particulate pollution would be much less with an EV. The brake pads and rotors on my EV will probably last the life of the vehicle and the first set of tyres will last 90,000km. Previous diesel car with same tyres managed maybe 60,000km and chewed through multiple brake and rotor sets doing similar work.

das_menschy Oct 2, 2023

@timmc Do bicycle tires also contain #6PPD?

Tim McCormack Oct 2, 2023

@das_menschy No idea.

emotional support tiger Oct 26, 2023

@das_menschy @timmc I think we tested one bike tire ~3 years ago, not detected. But that is only one data point…

@timmc Same with airborne particle emissions in Cities in Germany [Tire and Brake Dust]...

So better #PublicTransport can reduce that significantly...

CyclesBecauseSummerIsComing😀Oct 2, 2023

@timmc that is not bad news. It is another reason to do more trips by 🚲.
If it is also a reason for cities to improve mobiliteit and bike infra, than it will be a great reason to celebrate.

Błażej Kowalczyk Oct 2, 2023

@timmc so public transport instead of paper straws?

iooioio Oct 2, 2023

@timmc This is quite informative. Thank you for sharing. And thank you for adding the correction in retrospect.