That "smart lighting" from Philips is about to spy on you in new ways you can't control -- naturally the company is claiming it's to protect you. This is Trump-level lying.
https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2023/09/22/philips-hue-force-users-upload-data-to-cloud/
At a minimum your location when you access the app to manipulate lights
If you have the app on your phone, all the data from your phone pretty much. Browser history, apps downloaded, message content....lots of stuff in there to mine.
Feit electric:
Allow the following permissions: Location, Camera, Microphone, and Storage.
For Android 11, the permissions for Camera, Microphone, and Location must be set to "Only While App is in use". For Storage or Files & Media, permission must be set to "Allow all Files".
@aardvark @spamboxer @dangillmor
Why does it matter what phone I have when it's the APP that wants these permissions?
@aardvark @spamboxer @dangillmor
janky applications like permission for your whole phone though if you haven't noticed
@artisanrox @spamboxer @dangillmor maybe I misunderstood what you said. Sounded like having the app installed let it mine your entire phone. It won’t have more permissions than you give it.
Further, some OSes take steps to limit the data mining. Eg https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=av1nevon
At Apple, we believe privacy is a fundamental human right. That is why we’ve built a number of features to help users understand developers’ privacy and data collection and sharing practices, and put users in the driver’s seat when it comes to their data. App Tracking Transparency (ATT) empowers users to choose whether an app has permission to track their activity across other companies’ apps and websites for the purposes of advertising or sharing with data brokers. With Privacy Nutrition Labels and App Privacy Report, users can see what data an app collects and how it’s used.Many apps leverage third-party software development kits (SDKs), which can offer great functionality but may have implications on how the apps handle user data. To make it even easier for developers to create great apps while informing users and respecting their choices about how their data is used, we’re introducing two new features.First, to help developers understand how third-party SDKs use data, we’re introducing new privacy manifests — files that outline the privacy practices of the third-party code in an app, in a single standard format. When developers prepare to distribute their app, Xcode will combine the privacy manifests across all the third-party SDKs that a developer is using into a single, easy-to-use report. With one comprehensive report that summarizes all the third-party SDKs found in an app, it will be even easier for developers to create more accurate Privacy Nutrition Labels.Additionally, to offer additional privacy protection for users, apps referencing APIs that could potentially be used for fingerprinting — a practice that is prohibited on the App Store — will now be required to select an allowed reason for usage of the API and declare that usage in the privacy manifest. As part of this process, apps must accurately describe their usage of these APIs, and may only use the APIs for the reasons described in their privacy manifest.Second, we want to help developers improve the integrity of their software supply chain. When using third-party SDKs, it can be hard for developers to know the code that they downloaded was written by the developer that they expect. To address that, we’re introducing signatures for SDKs so that when a developer adopts a new version of a third-party SDK in their app, Xcode will validate that it was signed by the same developer. Developers and users alike will benefit from this feature.We’ll publish additional information later this year, including: A list of privacy-impacting SDKs (third-party SDKs that have particularly high impact on user privacy) A list of “required reason” APIs for which an allowed reason must be declared A developer feedback form to suggest new reasons for calling covered APIs Additional documentation on the benefits of and details about signatures, privacy manifests, and when they will be required
location data. number of rooms. number of lights per room. usage patterns. patterns of when you are at home and when you are away. possibly even tv-shows you watch if you use their behind-the-tv interactive lighting products.
think that is enough? nope, not for Hue. their privacy policy says they will try to get more information about you from social media and attach that to your account.
@dangillmor @fj It’s a whole life of “Ok, so I can trust at least this company. They make money selling expensive quality lightbulb and oh fuck, even them.”
It really annoyed me because of all the toys in my smart home this was one of the most reliable (just behind the ones that were handmade with ESPHOME).
In fact it is no longer Philips owned. The company spun off and is called Signify…
@dangillmor I really struggle to understand the upside of smart lighting. Just flipping a switch to turn a light on or off suits my needs just fine.
I understand that other people might have different needs, but I've never heard anyone express any needs that would be met by smart lighting and not by dumb lighting.
Jaap, I'm disabled. getting around to all the light switches can be difficult, if not sometimes impossible. Other people appreciate the idea of scenes of lights. Many reasons to have something better than just physical switches.
@rocketdyke yeah, the utility for disabled people is obvious, and I probably should have mentioned that in my original comment. I do think most of that utility can be achieved without these systems being online.
That's the part I don't understand: why does it have to be online? Traditional switches and dimmers do the job. If using those doesn't work, you could have WiFi controls confined to the local network.
People are giving up so much of their privacy.
@dangillmor "When asked what drove this change, the answer is the usual: security. Well Signify, you know what keeps user data even more secure? Not uploading it all to your cloud."
You know what makes your data more secure than storing it on your computer? Storing on ours! Haha!
@dunkelstern @briankrebs I don't use "smart" Hue features. I just adjust the color/brightness of my lights during the winter months (in Helsinki). So, I get wanting just a local account.
But bridges can also be used to control cameras and motion sensors. And kids can foul up lighting configurations. So there really needs to be a variety of permissions/roles available.
The only practical way to offer a just a local account, would be a local server. Not a bridge. And that just seems like a whole other can of worms.
In any case, like or not is a matter of opinion, but I respectfully disagree that Philips is "lying".
@dangillmor Yeah, it’s asking me to accept their new TOS already to even open the app, no option to decline. Guess I’ll take them down.
Shame, they were cute.
In the past few days I have sorted out some old lamps and sold them on eBay. Several buyers had no idea how to reset the lamps so that the new Bridge would find them immediately – although it is so easy with the dimmer switch. This is how easy it is to reset a…
Big Brother
LIFX Devices use a binary messaging format to communicate with other devices on your network. This protocol uses UDP over IP and a packed binary encoding scheme. In this documentation we will explain how to structure LIFX packets, and the various behaviors associated with them.This documentation is ...
@dangillmor this doesn’t differ from the level of spying from other companies like Go*gle, *mazon, Sams*ng, Apple even.
Once they learned they could make money off of your data and click patterns, they learn how to exploit it for profits while getting away with it.
I stopped using the Philips app when they kept asking me to reconnect my toothbrush so they could track how many brushes I had left from the brush itself. Yeah, I decide that, so pass. Thanks, but no, thanks.
@dangillmor @kf Thanks for sharing this, y’all. Longtime Hue user, very handy, dependable smart bulbs. Am not signed in b/c I control all of them via Apple Home (Apple’s many things, but I trust them more w/ privacy than Philips).
Will def. prod their support to not do this.
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