GrathSep 2, 2023
Dan Gillmor

A person I otherwise deeply respect has remained (very) active on the deadbird site, and is even paying for it, because (the person says) it fulfills a professional need that can't be met elsewhere.

My friend calls it "a deal with the devil." On that, we agree.

I have my share of hypocrisies, and try to manage them carefully. Sticking with a site run by an enemy of journalism and democracy was just too much to stomach.

Journalists should leave. Period.

Sep 2, 2023 at 2:05amWeb
Show threadJoe ❌👑Sep 2, 2023
@dangillmor Might want to ask what Musk would need to do to make them leave.
Show threadJoe ❌👑Sep 2, 2023
@dangillmor Or if your friend would avoid saying negative things about Musk if this were the price to stay on the site.
Show threadKid ManiaSep 2, 2023

@not2b @dangillmor

'Cos it more or less actually is...

(I was suspended for tagging Corporate sites with white nationalist accounts and the words "YOUR AD HERE" )

Show threadGreg SpradlinSep 2, 2023
@not2b @dangillmor Shoot someone on 5th Avenue?
Show threadnobletroutSep 2, 2023
@not2b @dangillmor dudes an asshole it’s enough to leave
Show threadthe hatterSep 2, 2023
@not2b @dangillmor I'd guess musk would have to make it not a massively successful, popular platform. Or someone else would have to create something with equivalent reach. But (despite the echo chambers we inhabit) neither is anywhere near happening.
Show threadGabriele PollaraSep 2, 2023
@not2b @dangillmor i wonder this too. It's an intersting question, with no right answer, but curious where people's thresholds are.
Show threadKaroli Sep 2, 2023
@dangillmor amen
Show threadedgeoforever 🍎Sep 2, 2023
@dangillmor not just journalists. Any decent people. They are legitimizing Nazis. And
Show threadedgeoforever 🍎Sep 2, 2023
@dangillmor not just journalists. Any decent people. They are legitimizing Nazis. And
Show threadKid ManiaSep 2, 2023

@edgeoforever @dangillmor

I must admit, when I find out someone is still on Twitter my respect drops for them a bit.

(352 person follow: musician): "Dude, I can't leave. All my peeps are here and I need to be here for professional reasons."

(1050 person follow: pirate radio station): "See you later! Fuck you all!" 

Show threadMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦Sep 2, 2023
@dangillmor feels like a lot of journalists feel "they need to be where the audience is" even though this works exactly the opposite way — audience follows (across platforms) people who they want to follow (on a platform):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule
1% rule - Wikipedia

Show threadque :verifried:Sep 2, 2023

@rysiek @dangillmor solid observation and worth remembering - thanks!

although in contrast - the loudest voices sometimes get heard the most, even if they are in the minority and the opinion isn't particularly representative (or particularly useful in any meaningful dialogue).

its the conundrum of the world in general really - those that are respectful, thoughtful and take a while to form a considered opinion are often lost in the conversation.

Show threadRachel A. RosenSep 2, 2023
@rysiek @dangillmor The dead bird site is also useless (from a newsreader's perspective) for following the news. I was mainly using it for that and I left when I couldn't find anything.
Show thread🔥Cassandra🔥Sep 2, 2023
@rysiek @dangillmor This feels like the same mindset that makes them cover what sells instead of what matters. Reactive, unimaginative, corporate.
Show threadJohn BreenSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor I concur.
Anyone whose business model depends on Twitter/X has degraded their reputation with me, regardless of the content they generate.
Show threadShoqSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor Imagine if thousands of doctors were hanging out on sites selling shark fin soup as a cancer remedy, or leeching to cure depression in children. Even CBS News would probably raise an eyebrow at that. But journalists using a social media product willfully misusing its power and propagating heinous people, ideas and behavior? Only you and a handful of others seem to care enough to shame them over it. We need a much bigger crowd of shamers.
Show threadDan GillmorSep 2, 2023
@shoq Shaming doesn't help and may be tactically counterproductive, I fear. I've tried to show that journalists (and others of better ethical character than deadbird's owner) could take their audiences and conversations to better places, but inertia is Musk's most important advantage.
Show threadJohn GordonSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor @shoq James Fallows calls out journalists for many things. He may, however, have remained on Twitter. Humans are deeply flawed.
Show threadShoqSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor Agree about shaming. I use that as a shorthand for any kind of vocal opposition to this ruinous press complicity. I remain convinced that we need small but notable teams that agree to speak and act with one voice so they can’t be ignored, and have some leverage to encourage the press to cover its own failings and excesses, while we still have a little wiggle room prior to a complete collapse of democracy. In effect, Margaret Mead’s “small groups,” methodically making the case.
Show threadProtectiveHenSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor @shoq I'm thinking what would need to serve their interests to leave? And imagine either they need to drive traffic to their publications, and that doesn't happen sufficiently here, or they can efficiently share and gather info there in a way that doesn't happen here or elsewhere. I still use nitter as the bird is still unfortly the most efficient way for me to gather news as it happens along with insight & snark from a handful of people. I've locked my bird account & won't go back.
Show threadShoqSep 2, 2023
@bok_bok_ba_gok @dangillmor That is precisely the right kind of question. I think a number of things can happen here that cannot happen there, and lure or capture many of them. I hope to launch at least one of them soon, as Firefish is now approaching mainstream stability.
Show threadProtectiveHenSep 2, 2023
@shoq @dangillmor Cool! As someone with RSIs who depends on keyboard alternatives, I've found the Masto interface challenging - I'm trying out Elk now & hoping more innovations will come to make the Fediverse easy for newbies.
Show threadShoqSep 2, 2023
@bok_bok_ba_gok I’ve been struggling with some kind of RSI for months. I’m skeptical of my hand doc, but I just don’t have any more room on my medical dance card to investigate another malady at this time. But I’m very interested in assistive aides and devices of all kinds right now.
Show threadJ.H.NoyesSep 2, 2023

@shoq

Social media has brought us post-shame. Even pedophiles and other primate abusers can find heavily populated support networks online. What we need are punishers.

@dangillmor @tone1928

Show threadtone1928Sep 7, 2023
@noyes @shoq @dangillmor Right now it seems like we need vigilantes.
Show threadM.S. Bellows, Jr.Sep 2, 2023

@dangillmor And it's important that we tell our beloved friends that we can't be friends until they stop supporting fascism. That's what allyship is.

It sucks. But it's vital.

Show threadBishop WhitewindSep 2, 2023
@msbellows @dangillmor I bailed on every single person I knew from the other site except for 2 at this point, because they are actually here.
I had been there for like 13 years and they refused to leave the nazi bar so I unfollowed all the accounts they made here and then never used again.
Disgusting that every single friend I fought cops with chose fascist over a drop in follower count....
Most of them knew exactly what was up and just clapped like otters.
Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteSep 2, 2023
@B_Whitewind @msbellows @dangillmor I’ve been so saddened by the people I genuinely liked who just won’t leave the dead bird site.
Show threadChaodditySep 2, 2023
@Pineywoozle @B_Whitewind @msbellows @dangillmor repulsed is the word id use. I have come to view them as more hollow, self-centered, and short-sighted. Most of them dont even profit off the site.
Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteSep 2, 2023
@chaoddity @B_Whitewind @msbellows @dangillmor I know it sounds silly to us but I think the change is harder for some people than we realize. I still just feel sad for them.
Show threadChaodditySep 2, 2023

@Pineywoozle @B_Whitewind @msbellows @dangillmor For me its frustrating because, as far as activism goes, (and pardon my french)... simply "not using twitter" is piss. It is absolutely trivial. It should be a no-brainer, especially with the broad systemic damages potentially caused by a poisoned well.

And most I've talked to REALIZE this and even hate the platform but... simply refuse to give up on their little lotto tickets.

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteSep 2, 2023
@chaoddity @B_Whitewind @msbellows @dangillmor The political ramifications of it still being viable in the end of 2024 scares the fuck out of me. Most of those not leaving that I’ve spoken to in my followers, genuinely seem to be fearful of not being able to find their community again. But yeah, it’s such a shitty decision.
Show threadDoreen32128 ready to rumble!Sep 2, 2023
@dangillmor I agree!
Show threadjz.tuskSep 2, 2023

@dangillmor

Can we find out exactly what the professional need is? Audience? Colleagues? Satisfying their boss?

I'd rather solve their problems than shame them.

Show threadCorn Woman 🌽Sep 2, 2023

@dangillmor of course, some people have been saying journalists should leave Twitter for a long time.

Not generally people journalists like to listen to, but hey.

Show threadMark LoundySep 2, 2023
@dangillmor I’ve kept my account. I tweet about once every couple of weeks to encourage people to leave.
Show threadDan GillmorSep 2, 2023
@markloundy same
Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor @markloundy Same and I work to make this a more inviting place for the #KHive people who worry about that aspect here.
Show threadΩ 🌍 Gus PoseySep 2, 2023
@dangillmor The people who should stay are the fascists crawling around Twitter's denuded skeleton like the robots from Runaway, and the zombies whose crumbling hands and rotting brains make other options far too challenging.
Show threadEszter BalintSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor co-sign.
Show threadRoundcatSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor If you are still using Twitter, you have no right to criticize anybody else's consumer habits full stop. Giving money to Musk is about as harmful as giving money to hate funding corporations.
Show threadSolarbird Sep 2, 2023

@dangillmor Your friend is helping Elon with his project to turn Twitter into a fascist disinformation and propaganda fountain. With money.

This person would genuinely not be my friend any longer.

https://solarbird.net/blog/2023/07/31/how-it-feels-to-spread-disinformation-by-elon-musk-age-9/

How it feels to spread disinformation, by Elon Musk, Age 9 – Solarbird{y|z|yz}, Collected

Show threadSolarbird Sep 2, 2023

@dangillmor Here, this is what your friend is supporting with his business:

https://mashable.com/article/x-twitter-elon-musk-white-supremacist-ad-ban-adl-hashtag

Elon Musk 'likes' trending #BanTheADL posts as white supremacist ad runs on platform

Anti-Semitic rhetoric has been especially rampant on the platform over the past 24 hours.

Mashable
Show threadJust JenESep 2, 2023
@dangillmor I'm still there only because it's the go-to for our regional and provincial emergency services and local media. I'd love to leave, but with #wildfire and #flood #evacuation and #BChighways closure info ... I end up being or family's info both because they don't find it easily elsewhere. 😒
Hopefully soon they'll all move here
Show threadMiaFalSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor I think for some people, the idea of starting over in terms of subs is terrifying, especially if they have a lot.
Show threadStephen MurcottSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor agree that site is becoming really depressing and toxic as far as accurate information and intelligent commentary is concerned.
Show threadotocincluscatSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor says something about that person, i think
Show threadKing BeauregardSep 2, 2023

@dangillmor

"I have my share of hypocrisies, and try to manage them carefully."

What a lot of people call hypocrisies, is a matter of trying to balance competing but individually valid principles. As one simple example, I'm not a hypocrite about free speech just because I believe in some limits; those limits are in territory where innocent people are being harmed by certain types of speech. I still respect free speech; I just feel that there are some situations where other principles matter more.

Now if I believed in limiting people's free speech simply because I didn't like their message - like I believed in suppressing people who like "Babylon 5" better than "Star Trek" - THEN you could call me a hypocrite.

As to the pros and cons of staying on Twitter, I get the arguments for leaving, but I hold that the principled move is staying. Why? Because ceding territory to Nazis without a fight only helps them. I say, stay on Twitter, be a voice that Musk wishes would leave, and call out Nazi trash every chance you can.

Show threadtaketwoSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor
I tell all people that I follow on X to look for alternative means of publication and note it in their profile.
Redundancy is good and if people don't know where else to contact you, you contribute to a lock in.
Show threadKatharinaSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor hVe they tried mastodon? They could run accounts on both sotes and see how it goes? I get a lot more interaction with my toots than I got for tweets. I post mostly art so journalists might have a different experience but worth a try I guess. I also don't get any spam which is lovely.
Show threadMayhamMondaySep 2, 2023
@dangillmor the deal with the devil is the lazy man's way out!
Show threadDavid - Forking MadSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor Some people have lower moral standards. That's how I view it.
Show threadŠalomSep 2, 2023

@dangillmor

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/01/musk-twitter-x-russia-propaganda/

Musk’s new Twitter policies helped spread Russian propaganda, E.U. says

A study commissioned by the European Commission found that “the reach and influence of Kremlin-backed accounts has grown further in the first half of 2023, driven in particular by the dismantling of Twitter’s safety standards.”

The Washington Post
Show threadjlinesSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor I have felt for some time that journalists should be on the Fediverse, and wrote something on Federated Social Media and Journalism in 2021. Unfortunately not much has changed since.
Federated Social Media and Journalism – John Lines's Debian blog

Show threadB.I.L.L. the AlienSep 2, 2023

@dangillmor

Those that stay will come to rue the day.

Show threadGrandpa DonSep 2, 2023

@dangillmor

like any social change, there are pioneers like yourself, and slowly the crowd grows from two people on a streetcorner with homemade signs to massive demonstrations and eventual revolt. I miss many I followed back there, but what's correct is correct

( even the word "right" has become no longer correct)

Show threadDanatheoneSep 2, 2023
@dangillmor
Social media platforms are far more nuanced a vehicle to market than even rocket ships or electric cars. The man who wants to go to Mars is trapped by his own $44 billion dollar hubris on Earth… Pottery barn rule in effect
And yes it is broken and people should know better and get out now
Show threadKing KaufmanSep 2, 2023

@dangillmor

My answer to that response is a question: If posting links on Daily Stormer were a HUGE traffic boost, would you do it?