StephI've seen several posts now on the theme of "astronomers are angry at StarLink".
The night sky belongs to EVERYONE. Not just astronomers. It's being taken away from all of us, and we should ALL be angry about it. #astronomy #astrodon
Michael de Jong š@astronomerritt Is StarLink necessary? Does it solve a problem that cannot be solved on the ground? I doubt that.
@sprakeloos I agree. I think there is a problem to be solved, but letting a billionaire clutter up the sky with bright junk is not a good solution. Even if it has to be satellite constellations, if someone had even thought to consult astronomers first then mitigation attempts might have been made.
schrotthaufen@astronomerritt @sprakeloos On top of that, the optical pollution is just one of the problems starlink causes. Close encounters with other satellites is another one. (https://www.space.com/starlink-satellite-conjunction-increase-threatens-space-sustainability) And I read somewhere that when itās fully deployed, they have to replace about 5t of satellites every day, but I canāt find the source for that, so take it with a grain of salt.
Nonya Bidniss š„„š“@sprakeloos @astronomerritt Starlnk is necessary only for Elon's profits. The world would be better off without it and the other planned megaconstellations (Starlink is only the first in a trend!)
Michael Busch@Nonya_Bidniss @sprakeloos @astronomerritt Starlink is losing SpaceX a hundred million dollars a quarter.
It doesn't even make a profit.
(It has, however, run up the claimed valuation of SpaceX.)
Dan York@sprakeloos @astronomerritt Starlink actually *does* solve a problem. There are estimated to be about 2.9 billion people in the world who do not have access to the Internet as you and I do (since we are here on Mastodon). Many of the people who are unconnected donāt have terrestrial options. They canāt get fiber easily, nor microwave nor other wireless options. Many of the people who have set up Starlink find that it is truly life-changing.
Moreā¦
1/2
@sprakeloos @astronomerritt
But that amazing Internet access certainly has trade offs with regards to astronomy and environmental issues and more.
(My team wrote about some of this last year at https://www.internetsociety.org/leos/ )
And Starlink is just the firstā¦ there are about a dozen other āmega-constellationsā in the works. It is conceivable that there could be 60,000+ sats launched into LEO over the next 5 years or so.
2/2
Serge š»@astronomerritt Agreed. Who thought it was a good idea to allow a billionaire to turn the sky into a profit making machine?
@xerge It's my understanding that when you're a billionaire you don't have to wait to be allowed, you can just do whatever you like and let your wealth swallow the consequences...
Jargoggles@astronomerritt
@xerge
The penalties for these kinds of crimes always seem to be fines or, in other words, they're legal if you're rich enough.
There needs to be a corporate version of "jail" where even if people hide their culpability behind their businesses, they stand to lose their companies via nationalization or something.
Passenger"Mommy, what were stars?"
Steve's Place@astronomerritt He's placing all of them in low earth orbit. They will all fall through the atmosphere and be destroyed. His legacy will ultimately be thousands of bits of space debris burning up when he decides to pull the plug b/c it isn't making money or he wants an excuse to screw with Ukraine or he gets bored with it. I question whether it's a long-term commitment. After all, he's moving to Mars.
@stevesplace Like many billionaires, he is unfamiliar with the concept of consequences, as they've never applied to him before.
Yury Molodtsov@astronomerritt @mimsical A recently launched Starlink constellation is one of the most beautiful things Iāve ever seen on a night sky
Christopher Mims@yury_mol @astronomerritt I admire the tech but we can't not discuss what it's doing to astronomy
@mimsical @astronomerritt Just randomly saw Hubble a few days ago, we need to launch more of them!
Mark T. Tomczak@astronomerritt Complication: some people think a night sky where little lights are zipping around and you can play "spot the satellite" is more fun than one where the lights almost always stand still.
@mark I think fun should probably take a backseat to science and to cultural, historical and religious significance.
@astronomerritt That's fair.
If someone democratizes the night sky, we could vote on it. That sounds like we'd need an international governing body with some teeth to enforce it though.
JĆørn@mark @astronomerritt That game gets old fast when thereās multiple blinking Starlinkās visible at any time.
Oh whatās that? Starlink. And that one? Starlink. Ok but how about that one? Starlink.
Tom Ritchford@mark @astronomerritt Who hasn't wished for more billboards in the Grand Canyon?
@TomSwirly You may be targeting that sarcasm at the wrong person. As in "Yeah I know." š
Grand canyon billboards I can leave behind, but I was the kid in high school who watched Koyaanisqatsi and when the power lines cut across the wilderness, my immediate thought was "Oh that's much more interesting."
I drove out to a look at a nuclear power plant last night for fun.
@mark The last time I saw Koyaanisqatsi, I cried so hard that I couldn't see any more, because I realized that we had ignored the warning of the film, and we were going to completely and thoroughly destroy our ecosystem, a million species, and most of humanity.
When I saw it in 1982, I guess I thought we'd turn away from the precipice.
Yes, people's love of technology is much greater than pretty well anything else. Pity for our grandchildren, and all the creatures around us.
@TomSwirly I don't think love of technology is the problem. Love of the wrong technology, sure. Love of the unsustainable.
But technology and our ability to create it is the core of our survival. Without it, we're naked ape-adjacents with a pretty decent throwing capacity, dive reflex, and better-than-mammal-average perspiration for persistence hunting. Without it, most of us would not be alive today.
The risk isn't technology; it's failure to manage the complexities interacting technologies bring and the balancing of needs.
Koyaanisqatsi in Hopi means, roughly, "Life out of balance."
... popping stack to the Starlink topic: I don't think Musk and his ilk deserve unfettered control of the sky. I also don't think astronomers do. Or astrologers. Or anyone. The sky is infinite; I believe there is room to balance all of these needs. It won't be easy. But it's a much better option than the alternatives.
@mark I've had conversations like this for 50 years. At the start, I was on your side.
Now I think it's like an addict saying how they can take it or leave it.
"it's failure to manage the complexities interacting technologies bring and the balancing of needs."
But that was never going to happen, because it was impossible. Now we know there's an existential threat, and we aren't even pretending to try to do this.
@TomSwirly Oh, no mistake, we are addicted. Actually, we're more than addicted: our survival depends on several technologies that aren't sustainable. There are 8 billion people on the planet and we don't have a solution yet for feeding even most of them without fossil fuels and nitrogen fertilizer.
Unwinding that is an extraordinarily difficult task, but vitally important to the 8 billion people who would appreciate, you know, living.
I don't think the task is impossible. I think it's the greatest challenge our species has faced in its continuation.
Chilly Dee Williams@astronomerritt I'm angry about it.
Chuck O'Rourke:verified:Ich bin eine astronomer !
M. FiorettiINDEED!, and,
for what it's worth, here are my 2c to spread that awareness, since 2019:
Hugh Young-Bish
Efi (nap pet) š¦š¤@astronomerritt aren't these satellites tiny? what is the concern here exactly? this is the first time I hear about it and searching for it only brings up the brand propaganda
felizThis article covers some of the problems caused for astronomers by the starlink satellites:
https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/spacex-starlink-problem-astronomy
@feliz honestly, that article is fukin unreadable on my phone lol
thanks for the link, but had you posted the telescope images and said "they leave these trails" you'd have saved me half an hour lol =P
thanks for the link, but had you posted the telescope images and said "they leave these trails" you'd have saved me half an hour lol =P
Ćngela Stella MatutinaWhoever says "astronomers" is full of shit.
Most astronomers, either professional or amateurs like me, are extremely concerned not only about megaconstellations (not just Starlink but any one of them that goes up) but about terrestrial light pollution too. People losing access to the night sky kills astronomical vocations too, no matter how much photos taken by instruments in remote places or in space we show them in the Internet.
@angelastella I think you may have misread my post. You could try it again.
If it helps, I'm an astronomer.
Clearer now? I have no bone to pick with you.
Nick Stevens GraphicsHere's a fixed StarLink logo for you, use it as you see fit.
@astronomerritt "Luckily" these satellites are the McDonald's of space technology, with a lifespan of five years, so once Musk gets staked out on an anthill, we only have to wait a bit until our skies are clear again.