Daring Fireball
★ ‘Changes to U.K. Surveillance Regime May Violate International Law’
https://daringfireball.net/2023/08/kouvakas_uk_surveillance
‘Changes to U.K. Surveillance Regime May Violate International Law’

What will actually happen, I believe, is that E2EE messaging platforms like WhatsApp (overwhelmingly popular in the U.K.), Signal, and iMessage *will stop working and be pulled from app stores in the U.K.*, full stop. The U.K. seems to think it’s a bluff; I don’t.

Daring Fireball
Aug 24, 2023 at 1:25amDF Tootbot
Show threadSeanAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball what’s extra funny is the former UK prime minister got into trouble because he apparently couldn’t access his WhatsApp messages to give a government inquiry 👀
Show threadPlanetWilsonAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball not going to happen. This is government is a dead man walking. It won’t be long before the entire bill is “paused, for more consultation”
Show threadMatt SmithAug 24, 2023

@daringfireball I think you’re giving the current government too much credit with your final paragraph.

See its stance on deporting refugees as an example.

Show threadaman kohliAug 24, 2023
@mttsmth @daringfireball the current regime revels in its isolationism. Unfortunately all we can hope for is this not to pass in the parliamentary votes. Or providers ignoring the legislation.
Show threadSimon WheatleyAug 24, 2023
@mttsmth @daringfireball lack of respect for international law is a badge of honour, not a curb on their actions. Particularly for this Home Secretary, whose purpose within their party seems to be to play the party’s electoral base with extreme rhetoric and actions. We’re gearing up for an election here, so I’m expecting the number and degree of foolish positions taken by the government will increase.
Show threadRob McDougallAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball @gruber “heading towards a cliff”? you did see Brexit…?! This is not a government unaccustomed to hurling us all over the edge for no reason / with no plan.
Show threadRob McDougallAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball @gruber these guys are also not unfamiliar with breaking international law: see treatment of asylum seekers
Show threadIan HobsonAug 24, 2023
@rob @daringfireball @gruber You beat me to that comment! 💯
Show threadGarethAug 24, 2023

@daringfireball unfortunately the uk government and the gutter press are also currently waging a war on “woke leftie” lawyers. They would love to pick a fight with the “global elite” stopping the uk “taking back control”. Im not saying it will work but it may help them politically.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/23180795/pm-launches-scathing-attack-on-labour/

PM launches scathing attack on Labour accusing them of being in cahoots with lefty lawyers aiding illegal...

RISHI Sunak today launched an astonishing attack on Labour, accusing the party of being in cahoots with lefty lawyers who help illegal migrants. In a scathing tweet, the PM argued Sir Keir Starmer,…

The Sun
Show threadAlan JayAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball the other problem is the way UK laws have a tendency to work, back in the mid 80s a new law (computer misuse act) was being passed and I was running a conference at which one of the MPs who was sponsoring the bill was talking and I explained that the law as written meant everyone was breaking it. He explained that they did't mean it to be enforced like that and only planned to enforce it for serious breaches …
Show threadAlan JayAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball so you have to trust the police not to abuse the power or that the judiciary define how it can be applied. But there is often a complete lack of understanding of the technology when it comes to legislation.
Show threadGarethAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball I also don’t think the uk or eu are particularly worried about meta or apple removing their messaging apps from uk or eu App Store. I currently use at least 3 different messaging apps depending who I am talking to and there are loads of uk/eu companies who would love the chance to launch a less secure messaging app for a market of hundreds of millions of users. Governments are counting users adapting, and most people don’t care about e2e encryption, unfortunately.
Show threadAndy SimpsonAug 24, 2023

@daringfireball Speaking as a British person, seeing the government insisting on driving off a cliff is pretty standard these days.

The best hope is that if this crap does go to a vote that the House of Lords shoot it down. They have a fairly decent record of pushing back on civil liberties issues.

Show threadmyrmidonAug 24, 2023
@daringfireball Security updates are a different beast though.
Apple and Google would have to pull from the UK market for the contagion not to spread.
Show threadQuantumDotterAug 24, 2023

@daringfireball

"Perhaps the argument — as made by Kouvakas — that these changes would run afoul of international law will resonate with the U.K. in a way that technical arguments, thus far, have not."

Not a chance. This populist, sensationalist, culture war wannabe government has flaunted international law on everything from trade to Northern Ireland to refugees and asylum seekers. They'll plow on and do whatever the stupidest possible option is until we eventually kick them to the curb