QuadRadicalAug 12, 2023
Simon Poole

The downsides of being frugal.

The #OpenStreetMap Foundation spends, even with a slightly more ambitious budget this year than previously, less than %1 of what WMF/Wikipedia does, but is struggling to make ends meet.

There is no threat a la the infamous Wikipedia ads that the project will shut down, but without the funds activities will have to be cut back significantly.

If you consider OSM valuable consider https://supporting.openstreetmap.org/

OpenStreetMap Foundation – Supporting the work of the OpenStreetMap project

Aug 11, 2023 at 2:17pmWeb
Show threadLuke Seelenbinder🇨🇭🇪🇪🇺🇸Aug 11, 2023
@simon Excited that we'll (@stadiamaps) be sponsoring very soon! 😄
Show threadpang pang trululu trululuAug 11, 2023
@simon I love OSM, and I searched again to create my own tiles, found this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Creating_your_own_tiles why is that article both french and english? I can talk both but it's weird.
FR:Creating your own tiles - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Show threadSam WilsonAug 12, 2023
@kiki_mwai_mwai @simon I guess that page hasn't been fully translated. It looks like it was probably copied from an English source, and translation begun but not finished. If you're up for it, I'd say go ahead and translate the remaining bits!
Show threadOlivier LeroyAug 11, 2023
@simon I have done my (small) part!
Show threadJohn DetersAug 12, 2023
@simon Thank you for posting this. I just signed up!
Show threadAlun JonesAug 12, 2023
@simon done. Early on, I was an active contributor, taking ever more eccentric routes on my daily commute to capture obscure roads. Nowadays I'm a consumer and it seems only right to contribute.
Show thread@[email protected]Aug 12, 2023
@simon OSM is also arguably used in a relatively official capacity by far more organisations also.
Show threadkristbaumAug 12, 2023
@simon Wasn't there some discussion some years ago to put OSM under the WMF umbrella? Wouldn't that still be an option, or is this unrealistic?
Show threadSimon PooleAug 12, 2023

@kristbaum not that I know of (and I know a fair bit :-)).

While the organisations are similar in many ways they are also very different. Not to mention that the WMF generally functions as the example of the kind of organisation the OSMF shouldn't turn in to (in a friendly way I point out).

So, unrealisitic, I would say

Show threadkristbaumAug 12, 2023
@simon Ah then I probably imagined that ;) But aside from how well either foundation is run, won't OSM profit massively from more resources and a bit less reliance on corporate donations? Or is this a too strong cultural difference between the two organisations?
Show threadSimon PooleAug 12, 2023
@kristbaum the later.
Show threadSolinvictus Aug 12, 2023

@simon does anyone know if, after donating, they offer a German Spendenbescheinigung or Zuwendungsbestätigung ? Thank you in advance 🙌

cc: @openstreetmap

Show threadSimon PooleAug 12, 2023

@dminca @openstreetmap you can get a receipt, but as the OSMF isn't a charity (not going in to the nitty gritty details of non-profits and all the associated differences from country to country) tl;dr that isn't going to help you.

Note however that the German OSMF local chapter is a charity, see fossgis.de/verein/spenden

Show threadSolinvictus Aug 12, 2023
@simon @openstreetmap understood. Thank you, Simon
Show threadDerick RethansAug 12, 2023
@simon I'd be helpful if there was a drive or a goal to strive for each year.
Show threadSimon PooleAug 12, 2023

@derickr well that depends on the budget naturally. Essentially donations need to be total budget - membership fees - any surplus from conferences.

This year that is £500'000 and a bit. See https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board/Minutes/2023-02/Budget

Board/Minutes/2023-02/Budget - OpenStreetMap Foundation

Show threadDerick RethansAug 12, 2023
@simon Sure, but put that up and front. The current membership recurrent payment is only through PayPal which isn't appropriate.
Show threadDerick RethansAug 12, 2023
@simon my membership lapsed because I can't be arsed to do the complications around paying OSMF
Show threadGuillaume RischardAug 13, 2023
@derickr @simon in the UK you can use a bank transfer. If the forms annoy you(fair), you can st transfer and we'll still use the cash to pay for bandwidth. https://supporting.openstreetmap.org/alternative-payment-options/
Alternative payment options – OpenStreetMap Foundation

Show threadDerick RethansAug 13, 2023
@grischard @simon That's what I did, I had set up a direct debit, but I got my money returned a few times. So I gave up on that too.
Show threadGuillaume RischardAug 13, 2023

@derickr @simon probably when we changed banks from Barclays? (They didn't like that we had no directors in the UK)

I'll message you on irc in a minute.

Show threadSimon PooleAug 12, 2023
@derickr you need to discuss that with @grischard ... but I suspect the gist is that the OSMF is happy to have at least one payment processor at all.
Show threadGuillaume RischardAug 13, 2023
@simon @derickr indeed. We've tried a few, from Mollie which had the rudest customer service and almost stole our money, to Wise who blew a fuse when we had non-paying members in countries not under sanctions but they considered dodgy. Huge drain of volunteer time, hugely thankful to current banks and providers.
Show threadDerick RethansAug 13, 2023
@grischard @simon Wouldn't Stripe subscriptions work for most countries though? Works a treat for my use case.
Show threadGuillaume RischardSep 16, 2023
@derickr @simon we tried Stripe for a few days just now. For some reason donations fell, both in numbers and amounts. Visible dip in the graphs. No idea why!
Show threadDerick RethansSep 16, 2023
@grischard @simon As an additional option?
Show threadGuillaume RischardSep 17, 2023
@derickr @simon nah just one option. The page and form are overly complicated anyway, and people have no idea whether they want Stripe or Mollie
Show threadSyulangAug 13, 2023
@simon OSM data is invaluable for planning bushwalks, and drives a lot of navigation apps. Would be happy to donate for a really useful project.
Show threadArmin HanischAug 13, 2023
@simon Done ✅ And a big Thank You! to everyone involved with this important project!
@openstreetmap
Show threadDashtopAug 13, 2023
@simon I have attempted to edit OSM and it's absolutely unbearable. Unless they actually improve their tool significantly to be on par with GMap or Street Complete or actually offer a usable map instead of a map editor, I can't deal with them.
Show threadSimon PooleAug 13, 2023
@Dashtop as GIS tools go, iD (the online editor) is considered to be quite user friendly. The intricacies of the subject matter however can't all be abstracted away and tools like StreetComplete don't allow you to change "everything" so that isn't a fair comparison.
Show threadDashtopAug 13, 2023
@simon no it isn't. And that rawness contributes to not being very friendly to new editors.
Show threadSimon PooleAug 13, 2023
@Dashtop well iD has over the years taken a couple of million to write and maintain, I think everybody would be open to an even more user friendly editor if you arrange the financing.
Show threadjhall251Aug 13, 2023
@simon
Is it necessary to slam Wikipedia to make an ask for open streets? It's a turn off imo.
Show threadSimon PooleAug 13, 2023
@jhall251 Wikipedia != the Wikimedia Foundation
Show threadjhall251Aug 14, 2023
@simon
So which one are you slamming? And why would I or any regular person make a distinction? fwiw you equate them in your post - "WMF/Wikipedia" - My point is that imo your dissing Wikipedia does not help OpenStreetMap - meant to be constructive feedback, take it or leave it.
Show threadSimon PooleAug 14, 2023
@jhall251 wrt financials the WMF -is- relevant as the organisations are very similar in their stated roles relative to the projects, and it is completely fair game to position oneself as different see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer (note that the assets don't include the 100 million + in the endowment).
User:Guy Macon/Wikipedia has Cancer - Wikipedia

Show threadjhall251Aug 14, 2023

@simon

sigh. we are talking past each other. I'm trying to communicate to you that for me, someone not familiar with your org, but pretty familiar with Wikipedia, combining an ask for your org with a dunk on Wikipedia is not persuasive. You may have valid criticism of Wikipedia or WMF - combining that with asking for support for your org is not effective for me and likely for others. If you are only interested in communicating with ppl already "in the know", no prob. GL!

Show threadjhall251Aug 14, 2023
@simon Read the linked post, interesting and I hope Wikipedia and WMF get it together. But I'll stick with my feedback re effective ask for support.
Show threadspykeAug 13, 2023
@simon Commercial companies know that to sell something you need to make it easy to buy. One click and done. All there foundations like @openstreetmap and @gnome make it difficult instead: enter you name, last name, click 30 checkboxes, etc. No matter they sit without money.
I'm not even talking about that I'd like to see all donations in one place (like @opencollective or @Patreon).
Show threadSimon PooleAug 13, 2023
@spyke @openstreetmap @gnome @opencollective @Patreon there is no way around gathering the address information for one time donations (just as you don't get around a billing and shipping address when purchasing something online), but you can join the OSMF as a member and then renewing is really simple.
Show threadspykeAug 13, 2023
@simon When purchasing online, I often use PayPal and Google Pay, so it's a single click and I enter no info at all. Same will happen in case of OpenCollective. I'm not demanding anything, just my thoughts.
Show threadHias aus OlivaAug 14, 2023
@simon
Done. Thx for the reminder
Show threadshadow_absorberAug 16, 2023
@simon if only shadow had the money currently to support all the projects they use they would... but for now a reply and boost is the best shadow can do
Show threadPatrick StählinAug 18, 2023
@simon with a freestanding building in Geneva we would be much better off! 😂
Show threadRihards OlupsSep 16, 2023
@packi @simon
Always happy to boost relatively obscure references :D
Show threadschalkenAug 28, 2023
@simon OSM is amazing. In my part of the U.S., Google Maps doesn't even show every bridge. Meanwhile, #OpenStreetMap maps individual trees!
Show threadFrankSep 16, 2023
@simon Ist there a way to make a monthly donation?
Show threadjorolSep 16, 2023
@simon Done ✅
Show threadJason Petersen (he)Sep 19, 2023
@simon uh what is the downside of being frugal? Would they save more money if they spent more?
Show threadSimon PooleSep 19, 2023
@jason it would be much easier to get the funds if we had larger budgets and spent lots of money on fundraising.
Show threadSimon PooleSep 19, 2023

@jason to put a number against that: the WMF spends ~$18 million on fundraising, 10% of their expected income.

It should be noted that there are economies of scale at play. So spending 10% of the OSMF budget (that would naturally need to be on top of what is planned now) would unlikely be enough to make this easy (fsvo).