nixCraft 🐧
Poll: Do you think RHEL will lose enterprises market share to Open Enterprise #Linux created by Suse and Oracle Linux?
Yes
58.2%
No
39.5%
I don’t use Linux
2.2%
Poll ended at .
Aug 11, 2023 at 8:28pmWeb
Show threaddeltatux Aug 11, 2023
@nixCraft Really depends, if orgs are already paying for support for RHEL, I don't think so. However, for projects that rely on RHEL but doesn't require Red Hat support, ya, I think there's a chance that they would hop on to a RHEL compatible distro.

That being said, it really depends on why the org needs a RHEL-based distro, if there's no need for RHEL, there are other options, there are orgs who have already moved on to Debian and/or Ubuntu as well.
Show threadferricoxideAug 14, 2023
@deltatux @nixCraft Where they're most likely to see losses are in their RHUI-using customers (AWS, Azure, GCP). Those customers haven't invested in things like Satellite and other "ecosystem" products. It's easier for them to walk away, especially if there's offerings that their existing automation can plug-n-play with and if there's a paid tier available for the critical subset of their deployments that warrant it.
Show threadferricoxideAug 11, 2023
@nixCraft

My customers were already using OL8 for their "not a mission critical" systems. If they go OL8 all the way, they can choose to buy support for their critical systems and still have "bug for bug" compatibility that they had previously, just not via RHEL + clone.

Besides: Oracle actually bothers to get certified hardening benchmarks through CIS and DISA.
Show threadJoseph DicksonAug 11, 2023
@nixCraft I suspect Red Hat will lose market share to AWS, Microsoft and other proprietary SASS products as companies try to replace staff with a subscription.
Show threadAlonely0 🦀 🇪🇺Aug 11, 2023
@nixCraft One of my father's jobs is choosing which OS the company runs on their infrastructure, and none of the enterprises he's been in wants any business with Oracle. None. SUSE is infinitely smaller than RH, and thus is seen kinda unreliable; it could disappear with very short notice, whereas IBM is just not going away.
Show threadBulby  Aug 11, 2023
@nixCraft i don't think they will lose that much market share. companies pay for the support, and if OEL doesn't offer support then they aren't changing
Show threadferricoxideAug 14, 2023
@bulbyvr @nixCraft

OEL offers paid support tiers. But if you don't need support for 90% of your OEL servers, you only need to pay for support on the ones that actually need it.

Honestly, I'm sort of surprised that if Red Hat was going to choose to walk this path, they didn't do something similar (16 freebies ain't gonna cut it).
Show threadChris PetersenAug 11, 2023
@nixCraft I'm only about a 51% yes vote. Losing some seems inevitable between the "you're not open anymore" crowd, the "we'll pay less to anyone" crowd, and the "shrug, it's just another distro" crowd. I'm a little hazy on how some things will be bug-for-bug compatible if RH is back-porting fixes that don't necessarily ever go up-stream, but then I'm in the "never touch anything with Oracle's taint on it if possible" crowd...
Show thread🅱🅻🆄🅴🅱️Aug 11, 2023

@ChrisPetersenCS @nixCraft

I would be interested in what Oracle has done that makes you not trust them so much. Could be enlightening.

Show threadChris PetersenAug 11, 2023
@BlueBee @nixCraft Gaming benchmarks, wildly misleading ad campaigns, massive failures of technical support, price gouging, etc. But, why would I willing do business with a company justifiably infamous for extortionate licensing terms and threatening to sue their own customers (and everyone else) over and over? The f'ups around their T4 hardware generation left a lot of lasting scars...
Show threadGary T. GiesenAug 12, 2023

@BlueBee @ChrisPetersenCS @nixCraft

Oracle has a long history of misdeeds. Ones in recent memory are paid Java licensing for desktop usage post Java 8 and closing the OpenSolaris source code and taking contributors' code with it under a CAA

They also have a long history of extortionate business practices. Pray you never need Oracle software because once they get their hooks in you, the pain will never end.

There's a reason that MySQL, OpenOffice, and OpenSolaris were all forked.

Show threadGary T. GiesenAug 12, 2023

@BlueBee @ChrisPetersenCS @nixCraft

For a great perspective from the Sun/Solaris side, I encourage you to check out @bcantrill 's presentation at LISA11: https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc

Bryan Cantrill is an engaging and entertaining speaker and well worth sitting through all of it.

LISA11 - Fork Yeah! The Rise and Development of illumos

YouTube
Show threadChris PetersenAug 12, 2023
@ggiesen @BlueBee @nixCraft @bcantrill 100%! He is a great one, and thanks for that trip down memory lane with SunOS/Solaris. I skipped around on it from about '87 to '13, and he's right about what a departure Solaris 10 was...
Show thread🅱🅻🆄🅴🅱️Aug 13, 2023

@ggiesen @ChrisPetersenCS @nixCraft @bcantrill

Listened. Unfortunately that their illumos didn't work out, but good to see the passionate fuck you to Oracle for closing source.

Show threadjaxwxboss Aug 11, 2023
@nixCraft My hope is that Open Enterprise Linux will eventually overcome RHEL. But this will take time, and enterprises are slow to act when it comes to significant changes.
Show threadPaul Wouters 🇪🇺🇨🇦Aug 15, 2023
@jaxwxboss @nixCraft it can’t overtake rhel unless it hires 100s of very senior software engineers. How will they pay them to support a free product ?
Show threadCorb_The_LesserAug 11, 2023

@nixCraft RHEL's "enterprises market share" <> RHEL clones market share.

Organizations who pay for RHEL services do that for reasons that aren't affected by the new Suse-Oracle alliance. The source-behind-a-paywall thing won't affect them since they are inside the paywall. Tough for me to see a corporate board risking swapping RHEL out for ideological purity reasons.

Show threadpebcakAug 11, 2023
@Corb_The_Lesser @nixCraft let's be honest, the only reason to use rhel is software that's only certified for or based on it. Oracle was actually a big part of that.
Show threadferricoxideAug 14, 2023
@Corb_The_Lesser @nixCraft

There's a lot of organizations that used RHEL + CentOS because they only needed support for a subset of systems but using CentOS meant getting bug-for-bug compatibility and only having to have ops staffs trained on one distribution.
Show threadRune 🇨🇦Aug 11, 2023
@nixCraft
No, but it'll fragment the enterprise market, which is not a bad thing.
Show threadcatalackAug 12, 2023
@nixCraft The third option is out of context
Show threadr0tasAug 12, 2023
@nixCraft are these the only three options?
Show threadElad BarAug 12, 2023
@nixCraft
RHEL is losing market share to AWS, Azure, GCP and other cloud providers.
The only organizations that are willing to pay for RHEL are the ones that are stuck with software that can't run on other linux distributions or in a containers.
If your software can run in a container then a distro that run on the bare metal isn't that important.
Show threadferricoxideAug 14, 2023
@eladbar @nixCraft

RHEL having official/blessed security hardening and FIPS certification tends to work against organizations requiring such from switching to distros that lack same.