I think it’s difficult for us in North America to appreciate how contrary, rebellious, and frankly prophetic Sinéad O’Connor was in an Irish context. I lived there briefly in 1985, and so saw a bit of the place and time she was from.

It was a bit of a culture shock. I was 19 and not in school. I got a work permit and flew over to Dublin. I only spoke English at the time so it was kind of a toss up between London and Dublin. I didn’t think there’d be much of a difference it was all “Western Europe” as far as I was concerned — Denmark, France, Ireland, … all pretty similar right? Hahahaha.

Unlike today, Ireland in 1985 was a poor country. Deprivation had forced generations of people to emigrate to seek a better life. There were 4 million people in the Republic, but in 1845 there had been 8 million. The only country in Europe whose population declined over that period. 1995 was the first time in 300 years Ireland did not have negative net migration.

And it was pious. Sinéad called it “a theocracy”. There were no state schools. All education was in the hands of religious schools — overwhelmingly Catholic. Two years before, in 1983, the Republic had put a ban on abortion into their constitution. Condoms were illegal when I got there. In 1980 Bob Geldof had summed up his home town as “police and priests”.

It seemed a bit more patriarchal than the US in the Reagan years. But I didn’t know the half of it. It wasn’t until years later that I learned about the Magdalene Laundries where “troubled” girls were imprisoned in workhouses operated by orders of nuns, the Mother and Baby homes where women who were pregnant out of wedlock were kept out of sight to have their babies in secret, who were then taken from them and sold to American Catholic couples — and underneath it all the decades-long, quietly suppressed crime of the clergy sexually abusing boys and girls.

This stuff was not talked about in 1980s Ireland. But Sinéad did. She would not shut up. She would not stay in her place. She made original, passionate music. But if you think she caused an uproar in the US when she tore up a photo of the Pope on SNL in 1992 … well, in Ireland it was more of what she already was known for.

It was only later, in the late 1990 and 2000s that the scandals broke, and everyone could see that the crazy woman who would not shut up was right. She had been right all along.

The 2022 biographical film Nothing Compares is good. If you want to get the flavor of what she means to people in Ireland, go scroll through the expressions of grief pouring out on mastodon.ie

The woman was a giant.

#Sinead #SineadOConnor

Sources:

Wikipedia. "The Celtic Tiger" period of 1990s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Tiger

Conor Pope and Glen Murphy. "Census 2022 results"
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/05/30/census-2022-results-all-the-data-on-irelands-latest-demographics-as-it-happens/

Simon Hattenstone. "Sinéad O’Connor: The Angelic Skinhead for Whom Love, Intelligence and Madness Were Inseparable”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jul/27/sinead-oconnor-mental-health-struggles-parental-abuse

EARS. "Ireland: A Strong Religious Presence in the Education System"
https://europeanacademyofreligionandsociety.com/news/ireland-a-strong-religious-presence-in-the-education-system/

Ivana Bacik. "Ireland Has Changed Utterly: The Cruel Eighth Amendment Is History"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/26/ireland-has-changed-utterly-the-cruel-eighth-amendment-is-history

BBC. Eighth Amendment Repealed as Irish President Signs Bill Into Law
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45568094

Máiréad Enright & Emilie Cloatre. "Transformative Illegality: How Condoms ‘Became Legal’ in Ireland, 1991–1993"
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10691-018-9392-1

Pete Briquette and Bob Geldof "Banana Republic" (1980)
https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/The-Boomtown-Rats/Banana-Republic

Wikipedia. "Magdalene Laundries in Ireland"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland

Rory Carroll. "Ireland Publishes Report on 'Appalling' Abuse at Mother and Baby Homes"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/ireland-report-appalling-abuse-mother-baby-homes

Cate McCurry. "Summary of Clerical Sex Abuse Scandals in Ireland"
https://www.irishnews.com/news/popevisit/2018/08/24/news/summary-of-clerical-sex-abuse-scandals-in-ireland-1415362/

Henry McDonald. "Irish Church and Police Covered Up Child Sex Abuse, Says Report"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/26/ireland-church-sex-abuse

*Nothing Compares* Kathryn Ferguson's 2022 film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_Compares_(film)

Mastodon.ie
https://mastodon.ie/explore

Celtic Tiger - Wikipedia

@Voline Ireland has changed a lot, even since 1995. Unfortunately one thing that hasn't is the filthy tentacles of the Roman Catholic Church still have an iron grip on our Primary and Secondary education systems. There are powerful people here who want to drag us back to 1985.

@Voline

Brilliant list of sources. Thanks.

@Edelruth Thank you. Why should anyone take anything I say on faith, you know?
I’m a regular listener to The Irish Passport podcast. Naomi and Tim do a great job explaining Ireland to the rest of us.
https://www.theirishpassport.com/podcast/farewell-sinead-we-didnt-deserve-you/
Farewell Sinéad, we didn’t deserve you – The Irish Passport

If you have the time, skip my too-brief post and read this obituary of Sinéad O’Connor by Irish journalist Brigid Purcell.

#Sinead #SineadOConnor

https://jacobin.com/2023/08/sinead-oconnor-obituary

Rest in Power, Sinéad O’Connor

Sinéad O’Connor was more than just a musician. She was a symbol of a changing society in Ireland that made defenders of the status quo incredibly uncomfortable.

@Voline Thank you for telling this story. I was always impressed with Sinéad O'Connor's protest on SNL and I appreciate learning these additional details.
@Voline Thank you. I have huge respect for her. She was courageous and may her message continue on.
@Voline Followed! Thanks for sharing your story!
@Voline wow, thank you for sharing this insight. - fellow Portlander here who’s always respected Sinead O’Connor and her music
@JacquelineJannotta
Gave up Hollywood for Portland, eh? Was it the coffee, the mountains, or the glamorous drizzle that drew you? Or did someone tell you, “You’ll never have lunch in this town, again.”?
@Voline Lol, moved up here 22 years ago to start a family. Just couldn’t stomach the thought of doing that in LA. Husband grew up in Seattle and Portland had the right vibe. Kids are almost graduated tho and not sure if next chapter will be here. What about you?

@JacquelineJannotta It was 24 years ago. I wanted to live somewhere I would never have to own a car again. The East Coast was too up-tight for me. So that left … what San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland. I flew out Halloween weekend of 1997 to case the place. Just walked around, got a feel for it, went to see Man or Astro-Man at The Luna. It reminded me of Austin back in the early ‘90s, when it was still small-ish. I sold my truck and moved here.

Yeah, this is my last stop in the US.

@JacquelineJannotta Where are your other contenders?
@Voline Nice. I hear you on the East Coast—it’s exactly why we didn’t choose Boston back then. (Austin was a contender but the PNW won out.) After growing up in Florida, I left for college and never looked back (esp these days!). No plans to leave PDX just yet, but toying with the EU as I recently got my Italian citizenship. It’d certainly be a big leap, so who knows. Love the idea of no car, which is what it’s most about our year in Genoa.
@JacquelineJannotta @Voline probably the best place in Europe for living without a car at all would be Utrecht NL
@Voline Yeah, Sinéad was the real deal. Amazing woman. I really dig this tune she did with Shane McGowan. #sinead #sineadoconnor #pogues https://youtu.be/_q7307IWwr4
Shane MacGowan with Sinead O'Connor - Haunted

YouTube
@Voline @BruceMirken I really enjoyed reading your take on Ireland then and now.
@Voline I was there in early 1990 and was shocked at how different parts of Dublin were even then. One night I was at the Irish music awards in the Depot theatre? In a wealthy part if Dublin. Another night in a predominantly Catholic bar which seemed like a very different city but only a few streets from downtown. Goes without saying but pre-internet was quite a different world in nearly every way. I’m from NZ and was on an extended trip to UK at the time.
@dialogcrm
Yeah, man. In many ways it seemed like another time. I rented a flat with no refrigerator in the kitchen and burned coal or turf for heat — and to keep the damp out. Workmen in wool blazers and flat caps digging up the street. Coin-operated gas. Relatively few private automobiles on the roads. A snooker hall on the quays. … I frankly loved it.
@Voline Yes I found it shocking on the political level but as a arts grad it was a thrill to be in the James Joyce city. I was and still am a fan of Sinead O’Connor and sad she is gone but that place needed more people like her shaking it up.
@Voline @dialogcrm I was there (mainly in Galway) from 96 to 99.
I had a lot of talk on religion there and many people were church-goers.
Coming from France though, I felt so welcomed and respected.
I really have fond memories from that time.
@coralierenee @dialogcrm They really can be lovely to a stranger.
@Voline @dialogcrm Yes! They certainly do...
I studies Interior Design there and worked and did other small courses...
I was first in Cork for a few months then went to Dublin for a month (didn't like the big city much) and moved to Galway for the rest of the 3 years... 💗
@Voline always remember watching her sing on Top of the Pops, she was superb and still is.
@Voline I live here. Your analysis is correct. I second every word of it. We are heartbroken.
@Voline thanks for putting this in words!

@Voline

You mention the pregnant women who had their children taken away by the nuns. In the early 90s, I remember being told the story of a North American roman catholic priest in Paris who had an affair with a local woman. When it turned out the woman was pregnant, the church threatened the priest to dismiss him (he was a non EU resident with a permit linked to his personal status as a priest), in which case he would turn into an illegal alien liable to expulsion, unless...

@Voline

Unless he signed a document in which he promised to never ever even try to meet his son or daughter. Then he was moved back to some parish in his country of origin (USA or Canada).

I have always found the sheer heartlessness of this behaviour by the church, separating children from their parents, as something inacceptable and psychologically unbearable even to think of.

@Voline
This is the type of content I'm here for. Thanks!

@Voline

This picture of Ireland reminds me of descriptions of Duplessis era Quebec from the 1950s …and the Quiet Revolution that followed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution

Quiet Revolution - Wikipedia

@Voline This is brilliant! Really stands out among all the generic ‘RIP’ posts flooding social media today! Informative and heartfelt. 👏🙏

@seitz

Thank you. Well, it helps that Kolektiva.social has a 10,000 character limit.

@Voline Wow! I should switch! (I always struggle to keep it short…)

@seitz
Like most people on this server, I almost never use more than a couple hundred characters. But it has eliminated that editing you’d do on Twitter to try to find a way to save a character or three to squeeze under the limit.

But if I’ve got something longer to say I don’t have to break it up into an umpteen-post thread!

Servers will usually state their per-post character limit on their About page. If you’re mostly comfortable at Musician.social, you could ask the admins to increase the limit.

I’ve switched servers twice, now. Kolektiva is explicitly for anarchists and other anti-authoritarian socialists (Leninism is a policeman’s ideology).

@Voline Deprivation is STILL causing large numbers of people to emigrate from Ireland, though. Poverty has been through the roof ever since the country was required to recapitalise German banks at working people's expense, and it's been getting steadily worse.
@Voline Yeah Sinead was a firebrand, exactly my kind of person. Reading the media articles about her being "troubled" is infuriating, because while she was troubled, she was troubled by social injustice, and spoke out against it even when she was a lone voice. And she's been comprehensively vindicated since, something said media articles have failed to mention.

We've lost one of the good ones, and it's a crying shame.

@Voline

Great summary of turn-of-the century #Irish #history and #SineadOConnor's political and societal message.

https://kolektiva.social/@Voline/110783008959875353

Voline (@[email protected])

I think it’s difficult for us in North America to appreciate how contrary, rebellious, and frankly prophetic Sinéad O’Connor was in an Irish context. I lived there briefly in 1985, and so saw a bit of the place and time she was from. It was a bit of a culture shock. I was 19 and not in school. I got a work permit and flew over to Dublin. I only spoke English at the time so it was kind of a toss up between London and Dublin. I didn’t think there’d be much of a difference it was all “Western Europe” as far as I was concerned — Denmark, France, Ireland, … all pretty similar right? Hahahaha. Unlike today, Ireland in 1985 was a poor country. Deprivation had forced generations of people to emigrate to seek a better life. There were 4 million people in the Republic, but in 1845 there had been 8 million. The only country in Europe whose population declined over that period. 1995 was the first time in 300 years Ireland did not have negative net migration. And it was pious. Sinéad called it “a theocracy”. There were no state schools. All education was in the hands of religious schools — overwhelmingly Catholic. Two years before, in 1983, the Republic had put a ban on abortion into their constitution. Condoms were illegal when I got there. In 1980 Bob Geldof had summed up his home town as “police and priests”. It seemed a bit more patriarchal than the US in the Reagan years. But I didn’t know the half of it. It wasn’t until years later that I learned about the Magdalene Laundries where “troubled” girls were imprisoned in workhouses operated by orders of nuns, the Mother and Baby homes where women who were pregnant out of wedlock were kept out of sight to have their babies in secret, who were then taken from them and sold to American Catholic couples — and underneath it all the decades-long, quietly suppressed crime of the clergy sexually abusing boys and girls. This stuff was not talked about in 1980s Ireland. But Sinéad did. She would not shut up. She would not stay in her place. She made original, passionate music. But if you think she caused an uproar in the US when she tore up a photo of the Pope on SNL in 1992 … well, in Ireland it was more of what she already was known for. It was only later, in the late 1990 and 2000s that the scandals broke, and everyone could see that the crazy woman who would not shut up was right. She had been right all along. The 2022 biographical film Nothing Compares is good. If you want to get the flavor of what she means to people in Ireland, go scroll through the expressions of grief pouring out on mastodon.ie The woman was a giant. #Sinead #SineadOConnor

kolektiva.social
@Voline I continue to have difficulty grasping the amount of sheer pure EVIL that has been perpetrated by and in the name of the Catholic Church in particular. (Though you'd have a hard time convincing me that any of the American evangelical sects are significantly better. They just manifest their evil in different ways.)

Mankind was not created by gods. Men
invented gods in order to have an "irrefutable" voice of "higher authority" to tell them that the things they already wanted to do were good and proper to do, and that the terrible things they already believed were right and true. And the more powerful the god, the more appalling the things their gods are invoked to excuse. It's pretty hard to spin an argument that the kami of a small pond ordered you to slaughter every living thing in an entire town. But an all-seeing, all-wise, all-powerful god in whose name you burn the entire population of that town at the stake? No problem.
@Voline i'd advice also to read her book: Rememberings. i'm in it since two months or so.. it's brutally and candidly honest, profound and lively.
@Voline appreciate this. Americans have a very weird and simplistic view of Ireland generally. 1st generation American here and my entire extended family is in NI and the conversations I’d have in college in the 80s with people about Ireland were just bizarre.
@Voline I had picked up most of this over the over the years but seeing it laid out here makes me tear up. Thanks for writing it.