artemist

Hot take:
The Compact Disc is still the most futuristic audio format. Forget streaming, files, or the vinyl resurgence, CDs output music at near the top of the quality a human can hear by shooting LASERS at a mirror spinning 8 times per second. This somehow just works and you can read a $0.10 disc with a $20 drive.

When I buy music, I prefer to have it on a CD. I can rip it into my computer easily and if I ever lose that copy I can just rip it again, bit perfect every time. There's no subscription and no DRM that can take it away from me, I have a physical thing.

Aug 1, 2023 at 5:12amWeb
Show threadartemistAug 1, 2023

okay, i was trying to not annoy the fictional audiophiles.
The CD is actually the best quality a person can hear. If it's mastered correctly then double blind testing has shown any higher quality to be indistinguishable.

If you listen at a volume where the 96dB of dynamic range is insufficient or you can hear over 20kHz then you are probably listening at such a high sound pressure level that you won't be able to hear for long.

Show threadPierre-Luc GagnéAug 2, 2023
@artemist If the cover art was as big as vinyl and you had to drop the laser manually those fictional audiophiles would not exist.
Show threadAndrew Elmore 💽Aug 2, 2023
@artemist I've been working in professional audio in varying capacities for like half my life at this point and it still pains me that more people don't get this. Hi-Fi equipment is a really fun hobby to fiddle with(!) but as far as formats go, CDs are functionally perfect. Compact Discs whip ass. Love me a good Compact Disc. It just doesn't get better. Even SACDs and DVD-Audio or BD-Audio are really only useful for multi-channel surround listening.
Show thread#[deprecated] QyriadAug 3, 2023
@artemist is it archival quality though? archival quality and human perception quality aren't quite the same
Show threadLydia Conwell :firefish:Aug 3, 2023
@artemist Are you telling me that whole vinyl-is-better-quality-than-CDs thing is just bollocks?
Show threadKeith AlexanderAug 3, 2023
@artemist the downside is that, for every album, you have to have a physical thing
Show threadGoing T. MaineAug 3, 2023
@artemist people got so dang mad about CD audio quality vs vinyl for no reason at all
Show threadUrsidinoj/The BjornsdottirsAug 3, 2023

@artemist *starts audiophile reeing about sine waves xe can't even hear being not round enough, or something.*

but seriously. 16/44.1 is pretty much mathematically perfect for anyone over the age of 15 (although I am biased to prefer 16/48, because 44.1 was based on limits imposed by VHS), and 16 or 24/96 is only twice/thrice as hard on data storage.

DSD (1/some MHz, I believe?) is just selling wasted bits.

Show threadTóth Gábor BaltazárAug 1, 2023
@artemist
I've read that reading audio CDs bit perfect is actually super hard because it's designed to have interpolation for unrecoverable errors
Show threadGraham Sutherland / PolynomialAug 1, 2023
@tthbaltazar @artemist CIRC is actually pretty great at lossless recovery of errors. it's only when you've got pretty big scratches that it has to interpolate over the UREs.
Show threadTóth Gábor BaltazárAug 1, 2023
@gsuberland @artemist
oh I'm not saying the error correction is bad, I'm saying I've read that it's tricky to figure out if there was unrecoverable errors that got smoothed out
Show threadGraham Sutherland / PolynomialAug 1, 2023
@tthbaltazar @artemist the ATAPI CDROM spec has a thing called the "Read Error Recovery Parameters Page", which lets the host machine specify the way that error correction and error reporting is done. the exact details are pretty complicated but the short of it is that you can tell the drive to either disable interpolation, or report errors only when a URE was interpolated over. on some drives you can even completely disable CIRC and read the data as-is off the disk, regardless of errors.
Show threadGraham Sutherland / PolynomialAug 1, 2023
@tthbaltazar @artemist not all drives implement every mode (there are like 20 different ones) but the majority of them will at least let you put it in "enable CIRC, but tell me if you correct a URE" mode during audio readout.
Show threadJens Kjellerup🇩🇰🇺🇦Aug 3, 2023
@tthbaltazar @artemist but you can have software that bypasses CIRC.
I use ExactAudioCopy to rip my CDs without errors and without CIRC involved. It generates Bitperfect copies to the harddisk.
Show threadalastair87 (old account)Aug 2, 2023
@artemist It's still nothing like as satisfactory as legally downloadable DRM-free media would be to me because of the storage, logistical and material requirements - the middle one of those is particularly significant if you are someone who will lose physical objects.

What many people probably don't realise though is that most modern streaming services are lower quality than 'old-fashioned' CDs so that's a major advantage, though there are premium services like Deezer that offer comparable or better quality I think.
Show threadalastair87 (old account)Aug 2, 2023
@artemist Sorry, not trying to explain CDs to you since you likely know more than me, I said that for other people reading this too.
Show threadIainMac9 🇦🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇸🇩Aug 2, 2023
@artemist what about the sheer magic of creating an entire symphony from a tiny speck of vibrating diamond - vinyl for me every day!
Show threadMoose Jolly HolcombAug 2, 2023
@artemist I also like that my legally covered reuse, at least in the USA, is fairly strong. Ripping those tracks to MP3, rearranging into a playlist, and reburning to another CD for my own use are covered in an unlimited fashion. Compared to for example buying the MP3s where often you can only reuse a limited number of times, like 5.
Show threadbicebird Aug 2, 2023
@artemist
My only counter is that minidiscs use lasers too but like feel even more future-y
Show threadNicolai HenriksenAug 2, 2023
@bicebird @artemist I think minidisc uses lossy compression?
Show threadSimon 🪗Aug 3, 2023

@gahms @bicebird @artemist yup - data capacity is less than a quarter of a CD for the same audio length.

Were very useful though, a an early pocketable decent quality audio recorder, I have so many desk gig recordings from mine. I'd sometimes use them in mono for double the time.

The desktop machines were used in broadcast, too, playing out short audio pieces controled from a keyboard, way before PCs could do this...

Show threadJonathan ‘theJPster’ PallantAug 2, 2023

@artemist @QuietMisdreavus I only buy music on CD, still to this day. I love them, and the rips I have in iTunes, and when played on my Yamaha CD player. CDs forever!

Also boooo to Sony for removing the CD support from the PS4.

Show threadstilescrisisAug 2, 2023
@thejpster @artemist @QuietMisdreavus I think they actually reduced the bill of materials on PS4 by not needing a fancier laser.
Show threadScot CloseAug 2, 2023
@artemist It seems like the quality of the DAC in the player is going to be the weak point.
Show threadMagnus AhltorpAug 2, 2023
@artemist For such a complicated sounding system, it’s actually somewhat easy to read. Detection of the depressions is just checking if it’s dispersed or reflected, tracking can be done by just watching the character of the dispersed light, and variable speed can be handled with simple buffer length monitoring. More complicated than a record player, but still much easier than e.g. flash storage.
Show threadJason Petersen (he)Aug 2, 2023
@artemist the second paragraph is… not correct though. The mirrored film degrades, CDs warp, melt, and the error correction has its limits. It doesn’t make it a worse audio format, but to overstate all the archival/permanent “I own it” qualities doesn’t help anyone.
Show threadShawn WilliamsAug 2, 2023
@artemist if you really love physical media and are set on compact discs (over vinyl) I would suggest investing in a good cd transport. Also there are advantages to hi-res over what the human ear is capable of hearing. Higher than 16/44 (redbook) allows for less artifacts, which equal less noise. Software like HQPlayer push that noise out of the range of human hearing even further.
Show threadBytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱Aug 2, 2023
@artemist ...and once you've bought it, you own it - huge plus. Unlike the streaming stuff which costs me on mobile data unless I'm on Wifi.
Show threadJoe BartlettAug 2, 2023

@artemist For many years CD imports were the only way I could get hold of Japanese music, and I felt so lucky that there's a high quality, pre-DRM, digital format that's so widely used and easily imported. Even DRM-free iTunes and Amazon MP3 downloads were locked up behind regional credit card requirements.

Fortunately more bands are on Bandcamp these days, and DRM-free downloads are better in so many ways (cost, convenience, environmental impact). But CDs are still special to me.

Show threadOpiniated CharlesAug 2, 2023
@artemist @marcoarment CDs rot less than DVDs, but they do rot
(your mileage may vary, Singapore weather is clearly rot friendly)
Show threadBrian PerryAug 2, 2023
@artemist Don't forget, a CD can be used to signal rescuers or scare birds and still continue to rock.
Show threadFred HaineuxAug 3, 2023
@uguisubari @artemist Or get you 100000000000000 free hours of AOL
Show threadFred HaineuxAug 3, 2023
@uguisubari @artemist Remember AOL Instant Messenger handles?
Show threadBrian PerryAug 4, 2023
@haineux @artemist That’s a lot of AOL! Where do I sign up?
Show threadTaylorAug 2, 2023

@artemist

Just a note on storing music forever on CDs, they only last about 20 years or so before they degrade too much.

Show threadskyeyeAug 2, 2023
@artemist true
Show threadCats Who Draw Aug 2, 2023
@artemist Thank you, I find this very affirming! I still play CDs in my car 💿
Show threadlinear2202Aug 2, 2023
@artemist @marcoarment I still buy cds to this day and rip them for this very reason. I can always create new ripped copies. I love album art and liner notes too.
Show threadXerxesAug 2, 2023
@artemist preach!
Show threadkætAug 2, 2023
@artemist Still illegal to do this in the UK, amazingly. I guess some brown envelopes have changed hands to make sure that remains the case.
Show threadJake in the desertAug 2, 2023
@artemist YEP
Show threadCaleb Hearth Aug 2, 2023
@artemist @marcoarment Sure but there’s something really amazing about vinyl PHYSICALLY CAPTURING SOUND WAVES and then replaying them
Show threadMarc Robinson Aug 2, 2023
@artemist Heck yeah! I also like that I can get used CDs for cheap or free. I replaced most of my LPs with CDs for less than a buck a pop on avarage. I only wish they were as scratch resistant as whatever they do to Blu-rays.
Show threadMichael RawdonAug 2, 2023

@artemist I too am a fan of the #CompactDisc.

What pushed me away from CDs for all but my favorite artists (yay remastered and expanded #JethroTull anniversary editions!) was that owning and storing a large number of them became unwieldy.

Although there are now a fair number of albums I want which are difficult to find on CD, so that's a tertiary factor. But probably behind "convenience" and "immediate gratification" of downloads.

I could believe there are a very small number of people who can tell the difference between a CD and a very-high-quality digital or analog recording, but I am definitely not one of those people.

Show threadChinnyVisionAug 2, 2023
@artemist Plus you can get hold of 80's and 90's versions of albums and they will be perfect audio quality and not 'remastered' to death with clipped audio. Eg Abba stuff which is just super loud now compared to the 1992 remasters done by their original sound engineer.
Show threadReinder Dijkhuis Does ArtAug 3, 2023

@ChinnyVision @artemist

The 1990s were the peak period for correct mastering - even later in the decade when the loudness had already started creeping up. 1980s editions are hit and miss as people were still figuring out how to take advantage of the format - you got some great ones that stayed in print for a long time, but also some sourced-from-vinyl or mis-EQ'ed duds.

Show threadAndrew Elmore 💽Aug 2, 2023
@artemist I'm totally with you, but MiniDisc is still The Future to me lol
Show threadSimon WoodAug 2, 2023
@artemist @marcoarment Amen
Show threadPhoenixSerenityAug 2, 2023
@artemist I still have lots of CDs & also cassette tapes! I LOVE THEM!
Show threadDJ Tent ModeAug 3, 2023
@artemist I have gotten so many older used CDs off Amazon for hilariously low prices. Then you can give the album to your friend.
Show threadtroutishAug 3, 2023

@artemist CDs are futuristic but they were also produced in an incredibly wasteful and low-quality fashion. Basically, they scratch, degrade or snap way too easily.

They were a good medium at the time. But a USB is a much better medium in 2023.

Vinyl is a better medium for display purposes and for the tactile enjoyment of playing the records. They'll also last forever if well maintained.

Show threadBiohazardAug 3, 2023

@artemist

Aye, it definitely was an improvement when they came out, & the sound is top notch - but that capacity though. IIRC like 74 minutes for a vanilla CD.

Once I got a CD-R drive I was mostly ripping down to 320kbps MP3's. Could fit so much more music on the same disc, still sounded good in my car.

Skipping was also an issue. With ripped files the read-ahead buffer could also effectively be longer too for less skipping.

I liked them but still immediately jumped to flash memory.

Show threadMatthew BonifaceAug 3, 2023
@artemist @marcoarment @decryption you’ll like this one ☝️
Show threadBeto DealmeidaAug 3, 2023

@artemist I know it's not lossless, but minidiscs are so impressive to me. The fact that you can record to a pocket player.

Since I never experienced them back then (I only saw 1 in Brazil) they feel like the technology from the future of an alternate timeline.

Show threadTristanAug 3, 2023
@artemist Personally, I really wish the Minidisc had been popular enough to replace the CD. It's small like a cassette, it has a protective outer casing to keep it from getting scratched, and you can easily record on them. If you switch recording to mono, you can double the recording time as well. It was the perfect hard media format. It just came too late, at the same time as MP3 and digital media.
Show threadgabertAug 3, 2023
@artemist
Also, they are mini frisbees
Show thread2 Wheeled WolfAug 3, 2023
@artemist agree on that, I buy CDs & create my own MP3s.
Show threadSam at BLAGAug 3, 2023
@artemist can you recommend a player that would work well with both a PC and a regular HiFi amplifier? I have a big collection that I just can't let go, but no way to play them since computers stopped having inbuilt drives.
Show threadAaronAug 3, 2023
@artemist I miss MiniDisc. In many ways, a terrible proprietary format. And yet… those little cartridges had the most amazing cyberpunk feel to them.
Show threadRichard R LeeAug 3, 2023

#DataDensity #Archivability #CompactDisc.

@artemist