Mastodawn

Progressives Unveil OLIGARCH Act to Combat 'Existential Threat' of Extreme Wealth

https://lemm.ee/post/2125276

Progressives Unveil OLIGARCH Act to Combat 'Existential Threat' of Extreme Wealth - lemm.ee

According to a summary of the bill released by the Patriotic Millionaires—an advocacy group that helped craft the measure—the wealth tax would have four brackets: * 2% for all wealth between 1,000 and 10,000 times median household wealth; * 4% for all wealth between 10,000 and 100,000 times median household wealth; * 6% for all wealth between 100,000 and 1,000,000 times median household wealth; and * 8% for all wealth over 1,000,000 times median household wealth; "In the unlikely event median household wealth fell below $50,000 from its current level of about $120,000, the thresholds would be fixed at $50 million, $500 million, $5 billion, and $50 billion respectively.” The legislation would also require at least a 30% IRS audit rate on households affected by the new wealth tax.

Lexi Sneptaur Jul 27, 2023

This plan is so very soft on the billionaires and yet we are going to see it being resisted violently and with extreme prejudice.

ATQ Jul 27, 2023

By temporarily embarrassed millionaires, no less.

slicedcheesegremlin Jul 27, 2023

Even most of the extremely rich aren't effected by this, if you calculate it out you need over 31,000,000 dollars before the lowest bracket kicks in.

joekar1990 Jul 27, 2023

Uh my house will totally be worth that much so I hate this!

/S

jscummy Jul 27, 2023

What about the family farmers and small business owners?

/s

ZoopZeZoop Jul 27, 2023

Yes, percent should be about 10x what has been recommended.

givesomefucks Jul 27, 2023

Pretty sure thats the point.

Showing that the billionaires will react to practically nothing like it will destroy them. And hopefully maybe a few more people will realize they’re full of shit

twelvefloatinghands Jul 27, 2023

Keep in mind it’s a wealth tax, not an income tax, so these numbers hit way harder than the income tax ones you’re used to.

Lexi Sneptaur Jul 27, 2023

How so? It works help to have that context

Holomew Jul 27, 2023

Income taxes only effect money earned that year, and have plenty of loopholes to lower that amount significantly. A wealth tax is based on total wealth owned, so it hits every year at the full amount, assuming wealth never goes down. Think property taxes; you pay the same amount for your house tax every year, because you still own it. And if the value increases, so do the taxes.

Lexi Sneptaur Jul 28, 2023

Thank you, that helps a lot.

Rodeo Jul 27, 2023

It hits the same as property tax hits, because property tax is also a form of wealth tax.

Alto Jul 27, 2023

It's got a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere, but it's nigh time a wealth tax entered the realm of possibility

varoth Jul 27, 2023

Yeah, we have a better chance of pigs flying, getting struck by lightning, winning the lottery all at the same time on the same day simultaneously than this has of actually passing both chambers and getting signed into an actual law. This type of thing will never pass when the very oligarchs it seeks to tax own the very government responsible for making it a law.

donut4ever Jul 27, 2023

That’s it? The highest one is 8%? Wtf is this, a joke? No one needs billions of dollars. No one should hoard billions while others sleep in the streets. Hell, billionaires shouldn’t exist at all.

Whatsit_Tooya Jul 27, 2023

It’s so soft and yet there is still 0% chance of this going anywhere. That’s where we are smh.

donut4ever Jul 27, 2023

Yup. I’ve literally given up hope on this government. At this point, I’m just waiting for a total collapse of this country. It will happen, but I don’t know when.

RagingNerdoholic Jul 27, 2023

Have a fun 16 and a half-ish years

MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We’re on Schedule.

A 1972 MIT study predicted that rapid economic growth would lead to societal collapse in the mid 21st century. A new paper shows we’re unfortunately right on schedule.

Black AOC Jul 27, 2023

I don’t think that report took into account the effect of feedback loops. I give it like ten, at the rosiest.

donut4ever Jul 27, 2023

It’s common sense. You can’t have infinite growth from a finite source. It just doesn’t work that way. Billionaires know this, that’s why some of them are actually building bunkers and “post apocalypse” places for themselves. They know it burns, yet, they keep playing with fire. Education and health of societies are very important, like the article says, but capitalism doesn’t care. Those short term profits are more important until they don’t mean shit anymore, or don’t even come by. I’m waiting patiently. I’ll be in my 50s. I grew up very poor in a 3rd world country and I know I will survive it easily.

Black AOC Jul 27, 2023

Sounds like where I’m at. The Paranoia Agent OP just keeps getting louder and louder in my head with every passing year.

rabbit_wren Jul 27, 2023

Paranoia Agent…now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time.

possibly a cat Jul 28, 2023

Reggaelator Demoman

Sounds like where I’m at. The Paranoia Agent OP just keeps getting louder and louder in my head with every passing year.

This lemmy has some taste!

zkfcfbzr Jul 27, 2023

8% seems fine considering it’s a wealth tax, not an income tax. In 7 years that takes away 56% of their wealth.

Granted, I’m not at all clear on what sort of assets constitute “wealth” here. How much of Musk’s $242.4 billion net worth that google currently spits out would be affected by this?

donut4ever Jul 27, 2023

It’s not like their wealth is not increasing. Fuck them, I wish I could tax them 90% after their first billion. No one needs one thousand million dollars. Holy shit! It’s a lot of money they’ll never ever spend. Also, I’d tax everything they own, even their stocks and other “assets” they use to avade taxes.

zkfcfbzr Jul 27, 2023

8% is a good figure. 8% gets real change and it gets it fast. This rhetoric helps nothing. Wealth taxes are very different from income taxes.

_cerpin_taxt_Jul 27, 2023

Why the fuck do I pay like 30% percent on my income? Fuck the IRS. Go after every single last billionaire tax dodger or stop taxing in general.

Alto Jul 27, 2023

Wealth taxes are much different than income taxes, and as such have a lower percentage.

donut4ever Jul 27, 2023

I actually agree with you. There should not be tax on labor. I’m already helping society with my labor, why would you double down on me?

drphungky Jul 27, 2023

8% on wealth is actually insane. Stock market growth is only 10% on average, and average inflation of 3%. If they had average growth they’d be losing significant money (like 1-2%) each year. So in practice 8% is just a really slow seizing of all wealth, and prevents them from making any more money unless they’re taking huge gambles and getting huge paydays that beat the market (which they would be incentivized to do). I’m all for taxing the hell out of the rich, but that’s not a well designed system and creates really perverse incentives.

Alto Jul 28, 2023

Considering that 8% only starts at one million times average household wealth, I've gotta say who the fuck care. There is no justifiable reason for any singular person to have that much wealth. Not one.

renrenPDX Jul 27, 2023

Can someone ELI5 with examples? Is this based on income?

treefrog Jul 27, 2023

Based on wealth. Like the tax we pay on houses but on total wealth. Stocks etc too.

But only for very wealthy people. It starts at 1000 times median wealth.

quindraco Jul 27, 2023

It’s based on wealth, and hence illegal - it would take an amendment to tax wealth, but this isn’t an amendment. So even if it could pass, it would be an entirely empty gesture.

RagingNerdoholic Jul 27, 2023

Eight whole percent. I can hear their boots shaking now /s

Go with the Bernie plan. Anything over $1B is taxed at 100%. Shit, I think even that is too soft. Nobody needs even a fraction of that to for themselves and their children’s children’s children’s … to live like kings their entire lives.

Zaktor Jul 27, 2023

You’re almost certainly confusing wealth taxes with income taxes. Bernie Sanders had a wealth tax plan, it ranged from 1%-8% depending on wealth. From $1B to $2.5B the rate was 5%.

ALoafOfBread Jul 27, 2023

For everyone saying this is not harsh enough, it is a WEALTH tax. Not income, wealth. All owned assets. Meaning any of these people who don’t increase their net worth by at least the amount of the tax each year will lose more and more of their total wealth year over year.

It isn’t intended to strip all mega rich people of all their stuff immediately - that obviously could never pass - but still is intended to open the door to wealth taxes and redistributive policies more broadly.

It’s a great move. If we can get anytbing like this passed, it is a significant victory.

NovaPrime Jul 27, 2023

Just getting something like this out of committee and on the floor for debate would be huge. Unfortunately it stands no chance with the current congress

possibly a cat Jul 28, 2023

That’s fine, the first step is the crystallization of an actual piece of draft legislation that people can point to.

Now in the primaries, candidates can point to this act and say that they would support. After a few years, a few elections, and many revisions, that’s when it would ever stand a chance of passing.

But for any of that to really happen, unfortunately, there has to be a document that people can point to as a reference. Now we have one. Happy day.

PatFusty Jul 27, 2023

In other news, renting a house has never been more popular! On secondary news, rent has raised across america by 8% unilaterally

Stoneykins Jul 27, 2023

Are you describing right now or making a prediction I can’t tell

Spiralvortexisalie Jul 27, 2023

I think it is more the state of American media. Similarly to before 08 housing crash, many home builders got stuck with over valued houses no one would buy. So they rented them out so that it would generate income and not have to take a write down. If you watch CNBC it tells you how the housing market is somehow doing amazing if you look at perfectly curated numbers that do not add up. One of the common media pieces at the moment is how popular this new rental home trend is and how its so helpful and gracious to those who can’t afford homes. Example: www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/homes/…/index.html

drphungky Jul 27, 2023

I really love the floating design of the tax pegged to household income, but I’d probably oppose it due to exactly what you say: it opens the door to wealth taxes, which are by and large a bad idea.

We’ve proven time and time again that congress can’t properly tax the wealthy, and will always eventually default to squeezing revenue out of the middle class. 50 million as a minimum sounds nice and high until they add a bracket at 25 million, then 10, then before you know it there’s a non-inflation adjusted tax at 1 million or 500k. All that serves to do is hurt savers and the elderly (who will naturally have higher nest eggs being closer to retirement). This will 100% eventually come to pass, because taxing wealth is a further nudge towards a consumption (and therefore growth) based economy that publicly traded companies need to continue extracting wealth from consumers, so it will be lobbied for by all monied interests, both the rich and industry.

There are tons of other issues with a wealth tax like creating a new bureaucracy to measure wealth (not impossible, as some people say, just expensive), the fact that people are taxed for gains they may not have realized or just for leaving money in the bank or stock market, something that is actually good for the economy, and other complaints. It’s also just inferior to a better income tax, and expanding income taxes to eliminate the loopholes the megarich use, chief among them borrowing against collateralized debt. If someone gets a loan but puts up stock or properties as collateral, that loan should count as income. There are tons of other loopholes, and the fact that we’re ignoring low-hanging fruit and talking about wealth taxes shows me this is about scoring political points, not actually trying to reform how our government gets money.

Irv Jul 27, 2023

The Supreme Court would veto it as unconstitutional even if passed. www.npr.org/…/is-a-wealth-tax-constitutional

quindraco Jul 27, 2023

“Veto” isn’t the correct term, but you are otherwise entirely correct.

drphungky Jul 27, 2023

Supreme court ruled income taxes unconstitutional a couple times too, they still eventually happened…

But yeah wealth taxes are a bad idea. Just close income tax loopholes for crying out loud.

Irv Jul 27, 2023

Income taxes required a constitutional amendment (the 16th) to get past the Supreme Court

drphungky Jul 27, 2023

Yeah but the point is they happened!

possibly a cat Jul 28, 2023

Then ‘veto’ their decrepit asses and do it anyway.

It wouldn’t even be the first time they were ignored, although it might be the first time it was done for a good reason.

betterdeadthanreddit Jul 27, 2023

What a travesty. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of the brows of everyone he’s screwed over to amass his fortune? Sure, I might not have two cents to rub together between paychecks but I’d better oppose this just in case I get rich some day.

4ce Jul 27, 2023

PatFusty Jul 27, 2023

Whats the point of taxing the lower end of the tax bracket? Its just another handicap they are incurring on the already marginalized class… i dont care about people saying not taxing the rich enough, stop taxing the fucking poor

GojuRyu Jul 27, 2023

The 10k isn’t what they make. It is how many times the median wealth they have. So the poorest affected will have a thousand times more wealth than the median household.

Saneless Jul 27, 2023

Good thing the people who have to vote on it aren’t impacted by these brackets at all!

SCB Jul 27, 2023

Wealth taxes are super easy to avoid, so I’d much rather see something like cap gains+“luxury” sales/income taxes and such, but it’s a step in the right direction

MisterCreamyShits Jul 27, 2023

$100k aint that much and those people already have a heafty tax burden. Plus luxury taxes are easily avoided when yachts and planes are purchased in the Bahamas. What we need are 50% taxes on the money they borrow against their assets. Want to buy another mansion? Cool 50% tax on the money Goldman Sachs lends you against your Amazon stock. If I have to pay a tax to borrow against my 401k so should these assholes.

SCB Jul 27, 2023

$100k is 150% of median household income. It is the boundary between 3rd and 4th quintiles of income.

People are not overtaxed. They are dramatically undertaxed.

dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-per…

Average, Median, Top 1% Household Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, and every household income percentile in 2023 including top 1%. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.

DQYDJ – Don't Quit Your Day Job...

Not_Alec_Baldwin Jul 28, 2023

Warren Buffett doesn’t pay income tax because he doesn’t earn income.

The billionaires don’t have a billion in cash, they don’t earn a billion dollars a year. They hold assets worth that much.

Taxing wealth is the only way to combat the wealth gap.

SCB Jul 28, 2023

First off you’ll need to define “combat the wealth gap.” Difference between high and low isn’t really a relevant thing.

MisterCreamyShits Jul 31, 2023

$100k is a bad metric because somebody making $100k in the Bay Are or New York is basically in poverty. I make over $100k and I’m not well off at all. Not even close. And I’m not bad with money, have zero debt, save 15% in the 401k no kids and still things are tight.