Mastodawn

❓ucblockhead Jul 23, 2023

If I were a better man, I'd give up fish. I blame the Japanese for creating so many tasting things.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w/figures/2

The girl at the supermarket (I say "girl" because she appeared about 12 to my middle-aged eyes even though she was probably 20 and deserves to be called "woman") asked excitedly today if I was a vegan based on cart contents, but I had to tell her alas, no, mostly just shopping for someone with a dairy allergy.

Fig. 2: Relative environmental footprint from GHG emissions of diet groups in comparison to high meat-eaters (>100 g d−1). | Nature Food

Note that eating the rich and thereby stopping all the private jet and yacht bullshit would blow any other dietary change you could make out of the water.

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

Since the "Elon Musk's Jet" tracker popped up in my feed, I figured I'd do some quick math. Based on a meat diet releasing roughly 6 kg of carbon per day for a 2000 calories a day diet (from random googling) and Elon's one trip generating 47 kt of CO2.

With this single trip, Musk generated more carbon than a would be saved by a heavy meat eater going vegan for 29 years.

I mean, you probably should eat less meat, but it won't save a planet full of billionaire assholes.

marvin Jul 24, 2023

@ucblockhead there are millions of people for every billionaire and all of the smaller amounts still add up to a lot. Even if we eat the rich, it's critical that the entire global richest 10% (annual income of ~$30k/year and more) gets onto a three ton lifestyle by 2030.
https://www.sitra.fi/en/publications/pathways-to-1-5-degree-lifestyles-by-2030/

Pathways to 1.5-degree lifestyles by 2030 - Sitra

Would you switch your car to a hybrid? Or imported meat for domestic fish? What about moving to a smaller apartment? There are many pathways to 1.5-degree lifestyles.

Sitra

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@marvin I don't disagree and I personally have tried to do a lot (pescatarian diet with little dairy, 90% driving on electric, rooftop solar, etc.).

But there is a lot of carbon output controlled by a few (both the very rich, and in corporations) and it often feels like all the demands are putting on individuals. who can only cut so much, while those who are just blatantly spewing out carbon like it's 1910 are ignored.

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@marvin The real unfortunate thing about that article is that the 1.5C ship seems to have sailed. We're projected to hit that sometime between now and 2027: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/17/global-heating-climate-crisis-record-temperatures-wmo-research

We are essentially there now and short of massive societal changes, that is not going to change. We have to go way, way beyond telling people to change their diets, drive less, etc.

World likely to breach 1.5C climate threshold by 2027, scientists warn

UN agency says El Niño and human-induced climate breakdown could combine to push temperatures into ‘uncharted territory’

The Guardian

marvin Jul 24, 2023

@ucblockhead it's very much a "both / and' situation, not either or. Eat the rich AND everyone remaining still has to consume less and modify lifestyles to create a future that doesn't rely on fossil fuels.

Or we keep burning down our children's future. Eating the seed corn. Narrowing the options left.

I've started to openly despise people who fly for vacations, l or cling to high consumption lifestyles. Their thoughts on climate are irrelevant. They have nothing to teach others.

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@marvin For what it's worth, a non-electric car may spew more carbon per mile per passenger than a fully loaded passenger jet for many distances.

marvin Jul 24, 2023

@ucblockhead I'm well aware of full lifecycle carbon costs. Today's expectation of long distance travel as a routine activity is incompatible with 1.5c, 2c, or really any climate target.

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@marvin I recently took one of those online "what's your carbon footprint" quizzes, and the questions around air travel all said "excluding business". This is exactly the problem, because when my company sends me to Tokyo or London (which they do) the planes don't magically stop spewing CO2. Yet nearly all the talk of cutting is aimed at individuals, not corporations despite businesses being responsible for half of all air travel.

Coyote of Winter Jul 24, 2023

@ucblockhead @marvin Wow. That's....selective especially for a carbon quiz.

I've recently been hinted at that my personal three year moratorium on corporate travel is probably no longer be possible, at least with certain customers.

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@gedvondur @marvin It was nice while it lasted. Looks like I'm going back to 3-4 international trips a year like before the pandemic, at least until I retire. (Hopefully soon)

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@marvin I'm convinced this is purposeful and meant to keep people pointing at each other rather than the oligarchs that run our society.

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@marvin is f it were up to me I’d just institute a 1$ per kg CO2 tax and let the market take its course

marvin Jul 24, 2023

@ucblockhead any tax has to rise exponentially. First 2-3 tonnes each year are free, $100 for the fourth, and doubles every ton after that. Not sure if anyone today could afford to emit 40 tons in a year.

The idea that any person can pay to pollute more is pretty offensive though. Personal emissions should be capped with a non-transferable annual ration.

I recall reading that small island nations and most of Africa are rather unimpressed with the wealthy global nations at climate conferences.

❓ucblockhead Jul 24, 2023

@marvin Look at it as not paying for the privilege of polluting but rather as paying to fix the damage caused.

Also, I'm not talking just individuals but corporations also. Otherwise Elon will just pay $0 because his company flies him everywhere. Every single release of CO2 should be paid for.

Darwin Woodka Jul 25, 2023

@ucblockhead if we eat one billionaire a day we could save the planet tho

Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺Jul 25, 2023

You didn't count CH₄ and N₂O. You save a lot more of CH₄ by going #vegan according to that image.

And notice that CH₄ has a GWP (Global Warming Potential) 28x-36x that of CO₂ and N₂O has 265x-298x that of CO₂.

So redo the math and go vegan.

Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺Jul 25, 2023

CC @emoryr in case you are open to revise this notion.

Timothy Wolodzko Jul 25, 2023

@ucblockhead Question for extra points: what would the carbon footprint of eating Elon Musk?

William Jul 26, 2023

@ucblockhead not to quibble with your dietary choices but no single trip from a private flight is producing 47kt of CO2. A fully loaded 737 is like 80t and only about a quarter of that is fuel.

47kt is about half the weight of a Nimitz-class nuclear aircraft carrier, or 8 Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyers fully loaded.

❓ucblockhead Jul 26, 2023

@phenidone Sorry, that was a typo. Should have said 47 tons, not kt. Math is based on the actual amount, which I got from here: https://mastodon.social/@elonjet/110769636396874012

I didn't validate the ElonJet number so it may not be right

❓ucblockhead Jul 26, 2023

@phenidone Googling seems to say that 1 kg of jet fuel produces 3.16 kg of CO2, which means that the 13,556 kg burned in that trip, which gives 42,837 kg or just slightly, more than 47 tons.