Scott LairdThis is fine. #Rivian
Popio@laird you took the red pill.
Dr.Implausible@laird Given the post, it reminds me of a question I've meant to ask: Are there any aftermarket back* mods for newer cars that would rip out the iPad a/o touchscreen and put in a useful, tactile, physical interface?
@drimplausible Almost certainly not in this case. *Everything* depends on the center screen (you can't aim the air vents without it!), and they push out updates every couple weeks with new features. So staying compatible would be a disaster.
@laird Ugh. Thank you for this somewhat depressing bit of information.
Guess I got some Binging to do...
@laird @drimplausible Alright, I've extensively studied this issue - that I've only recently become aware of - for the last 30 seconds, so I feel compelled to share with everyone my newfound expertise... 1/
@laird Looks like we might have a low-trim winner with the Hyundai Elantra: https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-hyundai-elantra-has-a-secret-touchscreen-less-base-model
@laird 3/ Ars gave us some data a year ago that can back up my hasty generalization: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/yes-touchscreens-really-are-worse-than-buttons-in-cars-study-finds/
4/ More here, if I'm in the market for a Porsche: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/buttons-are-back-at-porsche-as-we-see-the-2024-cayenne-interior/
5/ ...and I think I'm done here. this last one drove* (np) it home. Interfaces have gone the way of silence, and are a signifier of craft, wealth and luxury.
Need to make something cheap and mass market? Throw a touchscreen on it of some variety, and figure out the details later.
Want something tactile and usable, with affordances designed for use? That's gonna cost ya...
I mean, it has almost always been such, but the speed with which touchscreens became mass use is amazing.
@drimplausible years ago, I saw a bunch of interior shots of something that Icon (https://www.icon4x4.com/) built. It was all solid metal switches and looked like a tactile playground. For $200k, I guess that's the least I'd expect. I'd probably prefer a touchscreen entertainment center if I'm spending a lot of time in the vehicle (and have warranty coverage), but there's something magical about well-designed solid switches.
Jeff Craig@laird @drimplausible The vents? Why would a designer even consider complicating the air vents with several new ways for them to fail?
@foxxtrot @drimplausible On the plus side, it opens up a lot of packaging options because you don't need room for physical controls. The vents are mostly just thin slits, but seem to work well. It also makes *some* things easier, because you can turn individual vents, the floor, the defroster, etc on and off individually. Or, you can if you're not driving or have somehow memorized where everything is on the touchscreen.
@laird @drimplausible Sorry, when you say "the vents" do you mean the target temperature or fan intensity of the AC system? Or do you mean the direction in which said breeze is directed?
Because I thought you meant that you'd aim the air coming out of the vents via the touchscreen, but with this reply, I'm not sure about that.
@foxxtrot @drimplausible all of the above. The temperature, the fan speed, and the direction. You can literally drag the vent icon on the screen and the car changes vanes inside the vents and changes the air direction to match.
The turn signals, brakes, and accelerator pedal are probably the only direct controls in the car. The wipers, headlights, and "shifter" have knobs and buttons, but they're mostly just UI shortcuts.
@foxxtrot @drimplausible surprisingly, it seems to all work well. Most things default to "auto" (wipers, lights, heat) and actually work.
At least touchscreens are discoverable. We had a 2000 Passat where there were multiple stalks on each side of the wheel, controlling different things when moved front/back vs up/down, and some had buttons and sliders on the stalks. You could do everything without looking at the controls, but not without looking at the manual.
@laird @drimplausible Oh sure, basically the first thing I do in any Rental Car I sit in these days is pull out the manual to quickly make sure I know how the Headlights and Wipers work (other safety-critical controls tend to be obvious).
I still don't want anything that I might *need* to adjust while the car is in motion to require interacting a non-tactile interface.
adamrice@laird @drimplausible There are specialized input devices like the Streamdeck that can trigger computer macros. It seems like in principle, you could rig up something like that as an adjunct to a screen-based interface, as long as you had A) the right physical connection, and B) could trigger the right system events. Would no doubt take some hardware and software hacking, and the manufacturer would probably be unhappy with you.
Ross of Ottawa@laird careful that you don't get pulled over for going DG#H&JFD in a FGS;+d#HT zone.
Bill Plein🌶
neoluddite@laird @allsumnull it's giving me c64 flashbacks
Simon Rolfmore@laird ooh is it one of those 3D seeing eye pictures? 😁
Les Orchard@laird somewhere, someone said "I'm in"
Ed Chivers@laird "do you know how fast you were going, sir?"
"not a goddamned clue, officer"
DVHenkelWallace@laird try your iPhone: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/21/8-new-photo-features-ios-17/ ( scroll down to item 7. Also works for the laundry labels in your@clothes)
Robert Atkins@laird “I crashed my car” means something entirely different in 2023.