NathanJul 23, 2023
Reina 
I seriously hate touch interfaces on appliances. Especially on cooking tops. Please stop it. It's not cool. It's not modern. It's a nuisance. Bring back physical dials and buttons.
Jul 22, 2023 at 7:40pmWeb
Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023

Okay, a little followup on this.

I'm not actually always opposed to touch interfaces. I mean, I use my phone a lot, maybe too much.

Touch interfaces are fine for complex and dynamic situations. When you need to navigate through menues where content changes and the input methods may range from buttons to sliders to whatever and they aren't always in the same spot.

My issue is when static interfaces use touch controls. In those cases there are no benefits to having a touch interface, only the downsides.

The downsides are plentiful.
- Misinput, very easy to miss the place you intended to touch and instead touch something else
- Unregistered inputs, this is extremely common in appliances in my experience often exasserbated by cheap touch sensors
- Unintuitive interfaces, while this doesn't have to be the case, it almost always is, and is an accessability problem
- Overcomplication, this is more of an extension of my previous point but touch inputs often feel needlessly complicated when you could've just had a simple dial
- Lack of tactile feedback, a biiiig accessability concern and also a problem for neurotypical ablebodied people too as it's hard to get things right when you need to be fast which you often have to be when working with food!

And there's probably more to add to this list

Show threadMx Autumn Jul 23, 2023

@reina lack of tactile feedback and misinput are my two main issues with touch interfaces where they aught not be.

The worst is car interfaces where its nearly impossible to hit the right button the first time and certainly not without taking your eyes off the road.

I dont want haptic feedback I want physicality.

Show threadtromskøldis 🐢Jul 23, 2023
@reina lest we forget blind people can't use them! fuck touch interfaces everywhere
Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023
@turtle Yupp! A blind person commented on this and stated their frustration with them. I was thinking of it when I wrote that it's an accessibility concern
Show threadJanne MorenJul 23, 2023

@reina
Lack of tactile feedback (and tactile discoverability) is the main, large, drawback of touch interfaces.

The other issues are very real and depressingly common. But the issue is not that they're touch interfaces but that they're cheap interfaces. Many such devices could have spent extra money on physical controls and still be just as frustrating and unintuitive to use.

Show threaddakkarJul 23, 2023
@reina I agree with you in general, but small counterpoint: cleaning my induction cooktop (that has touch controls) is trivial: pass with a sponge, done
Knobs would get all sorts of detritus under them before I get fed up to take them off and clean…
Show threadDavid PeningtonJul 24, 2023
@reina I'm mixed on cooktop touch input. It's lovely to be able to properly clean the whole top & the labelling on ours was done in a way that survives cleaning, but spills of condensation can turn the whole cooktop off & you must have dry hands. Overall I'm more happy than annoyed.
I've had numerous unintuitive interfaces with physical buttons controlling electronics.
Show threadvmisevAug 20, 2023
@reina
Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 22, 2023

@reina but isn't it cool how sleek and modern they are? and how they don't work if your hands are a little dirty? but certainly that never happens in the kitchen.

wait you didn't intend to *cook*, did you!?

🙃🙃🙃🙃

Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023

@tarajdactyl And how when I clean the cooking top, it startles me every time with an alarm that I have no idea why is sounding off? My guess is because it got wet?

Oh, and when you need to quickly turn the heat down but you need to first select the correct top, then press multiple times on this touch button that registers some of the time, all with no physical feedback while keeping your eyes on the food :^)

Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 22, 2023
@reina 😳 that sounds truly heinous. i am so sorry.
Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023

@tarajdactyl Looked through the manual. Turns out it's because the control panel is either covered up or wet ... like ... come on ... if it gets wet when turned off, that's most likely because you're cleaning it ... it doesn't have to warn you about that!

Only solution is to turn off sounds, which would turn off all sounds, including useful ones ...

I'm just 25 but I feel old saying this; modern tech was a mistake ... Bring back the appliances from the 80s.

Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 22, 2023
@reina that is super infuriating. luckily my stove is older than that, but still has some annoying touch buttons. it does helpfully have a "lock" feature for cleaning though
Show threadUrsidinoj/The BjornsdottirsJul 22, 2023

@tarajdactyl @reina Yes. I want my cooking electrons gated by real rheostats which I turn with real knobs using my real hands. Just like we used to with valves and gas, when we thought gas was good.

You can add a stepper motor if you want computer control...

Show threadapophisJul 22, 2023
@tarajdactyl @reina my accelerationist instincts keep telling me that if they started making these for restaurant kitchens i think we might have a real chance at a revolution
Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 22, 2023
@apophis @reina i suspect they are marketed for shiny kitchens that never get used. hopefully nobody will ever buy them for restaurant kitchens.
Show threadapophisJul 22, 2023
@tarajdactyl @reina shiny kitchens for "luxury apartments" that are designed only to appeal to speculators and landlords

...hence why they need to be illegal because no market force is going to go against this no matter how bad it actually is
Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 23, 2023
@apophis @reina YES
Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 23, 2023

@apophis @reina gosh how i hate that phrase. "luxury apartment" just means overpriced and impractical.

it means they took perfectly fine apartments and "renovated" them, with cheap crappy veneer of luxury on top of absolutely worthless junk so that they can charge "market rates"

Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023
@tarajdactyl @apophis For some reason I can't see @apophis's replies on my end? I can't seem to find your instance in either my personal blocklist or the instance's blocklist, nor have I muted or blocked you so idk what's going on?
Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 23, 2023
@reina @apophis oh very weird. they mention you in every toot, so you definitely should see them.
Show threadapophisJul 23, 2023
@tarajdactyl @reina it doesn't look like either of our instances blocks the other so i guess it's just one of those random federation failures that happens sometimes
Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023
@tarajdactyl @apophis Yeah, I can see them by checking your replies from your instance perspective, so I've seen them, but it's really weird yeah
Show threadChristmas BakingJul 23, 2023
@tarajdactyl @apophis @reina My godson lives in Sweden and has an ikea stove with touch sensors. Ikea’s whole thing is making stuff to be used! We’ve cooked for his family in that kitchen and we were continuously asking “what does THAT beep mean?” “What number should I set it to?” (He’s also a UX guy and rants regularly about it.) (He did not chose it; the builder did.)
Show threadOfficially Tara 🕷️  🌹Jul 23, 2023
@ChristmasBaking @apophis @reina "He did not choose it; the builder did" - exactly! nobody who cooks would choose one of these monstrosities!
Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023
@tarajdactyl @ChristmasBaking @apophis I chose it but only because I didn't have any other alternatives. It was this induction top or electric heating top. If I had the choice if knobs, I'd pick it in a heartbeat. Though at this point it's money stopping me, as now I can switch it out freely.
Show threadUrsidinoj/The BjornsdottirsJul 22, 2023
@reina The only touch interface I want is on my drawing computer
Show threadQJul 22, 2023
@reina this! also touch interfaces in cars need to die. they're an accident waiting to happen. (quite literally.)
Show threadquixoteJul 25, 2023

@binaryQ @reina Oh, they're not waiting.

yes-touchscreens-really-are-worse-than-buttons-in-cars-study-finds :
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/yes-touchscreens-really-are-worse-than-buttons-in-cars-study-finds/

Buttons beat touchscreens in cars, and now there’s data to prove it

Swedish publication Vi Bilägare quantified the problem with new tests.

Ars Technica
Show threadRichardJul 22, 2023
@reina omg yes!!! our washing machine's "lock" is a two button touch thing, it is almost impossible to get on the first attempt and the failure to do so alters the setting resulting in the cycle being wrong!
Show threadfrandroid 🏴‍☠️ jin jiyan azadîJul 22, 2023
@reina Touch interfaces are only useful on dynamic displays (i.e. smartphone screens), and are inappropriate for static displays/buttons.
Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023
@frandroid Yupp, I wrote that in my followup :)
Show threadLisPiMay 10, 2025
@frandroid @reina I have some mixed feelings on that.

I've used a microwave oven with press-buttons for long enough that the menu panel broke (and of course replacement parts? No such thing).

That wouldn't be possible with a touch panel.
Show threadSantiago Lema Jul 22, 2023

@reina @scops I wondered also why they thought this was so “cool” they had to replace everything. Turns out apparently it’s just cheaper than a mechanical button.

Some shareholder approved this and now every time you drop liquid out of the pot it just stops all with a bloody beeping alarm.

Progress.

Show threadundead enby of the apocalypseJul 22, 2023
@santiago @reina @scops that explains a lot. I hate it so much.
Show threadRileyJul 22, 2023
@reina devices that opt for a few directional navigation buttons, some form of select/back, and a small screen to show menus also drive me crazy. It gets marketed as "simple" but in reality it is far more unintuitive. Instead of being able to see all your options and (maybe) needing a manual for a few multi-key/hold functions, you just end up with disorganized menus and submenus that require a lot of memory to navigate.
Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023

@rileytaylor In general, if it requires a manual to operate, it's not simple in my book xD

But yeah, they're marketed as such because few buttons. But in practice it's the opposite. And the issue is that often old people end up buying these and don't understand them because they're not actually simple.

It would've been nice if I was given four knobs on my cooking top instead. They can still have a tiny screen for error messages I guess, since induction kinda needs to display some kinda warning if the pot isn't supported or whatever.

Show thread🇳🇿   💉*9 RogerJul 22, 2023
@reina I prefer our touch hob actually. The previous always had gunge around the controls no matter how much I cleaned. To clean this one I just turn it off at the wall (the switch is right there) and a quick wipe does it. I've not had a problem using it w wet/dusty hands.
Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023

@rogerparkinson What would've been amazing was if the control module was an actual module and you could replace it. That way we could both get what we want.

(replacable because people have different preferences and cooking tops tend to not be smth you bring with you when you move)

Show thread🇳🇿   💉*9 RogerJul 23, 2023
@reina control it w a smartphone app? That would be fairly simple to do.
Show threadquixoteJul 25, 2023
@reina @rogerparkinson I wish I could ⭐ this about five times! Replaceable modules. Yes!
Show threadKay   Jul 22, 2023
@reina Touch surfaces also exclude blind and some low vision people from being able to use the devices. Hard when a touch surface is the only way to transfer money at shops
https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/132241023/touchscreen-eftpos-terminals-creating-barrier-for-blind-and-low-vision-kiwis
Touchscreen eftpos terminals creating barrier for blind and low vision Kiwis

Tech upgrade described as a shopping nightmare resulting in a loss of independence and privacy.

Stuff
Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023

@Kay I was thinking of this when I wrote my followup. Like, how would a blind person operate this cooking top? There's no way to tell which button is which?

I mean, I assume there are blind people who cook food?

When I as a sighted person struggle pressing the right button, I can only imagine a blind person.

Oh, and that's not all. There are people with disabilities that make their hands really shaky. Would make it really hard to operate this touch panel.

And there are so few alternatives these days too ...

Show threadChe TibbyJul 22, 2023
@reina i just could not agree more. my hands are covered in stuff from food prep, and the buttons sometimes won't respond!
Show threadReina Jul 22, 2023
@che_tibby To be fair, I wash my hands before touching anythingother than the thing that made them dirty, but even so it doesn't always register and I don't always hit the right place and since I can't feel around before pressing, you know ... blegh
Show threadapophisJul 22, 2023
@reina the inability to tell what you're doing without going out of your way to look directly at the interface and parse the arbitrary symbols is both an accessibility disaster and an actual safety hazard

not to get all nanny state about things but i think there's a really solid argument in favour of making these things illegal
Show threadundead enby of the apocalypseJul 22, 2023
@reina I just ranted about this today, what a coincidence
Show threadAdrian KosmaczewskiJul 23, 2023

@reina I hate when boiling water spills over the controls and causes the whole thing to shut down, because it interprets it as a finger.

Happens to me every. Single. Time.

Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023

@akosma When I read through the manual of mine, it seems it shuts down if the control panel gets wet or covered up, so I don't think it registers it as a finger.

But yeah, that sure must be annoying.

Show threadAdrian KosmaczewskiJul 23, 2023
@reina well sometimes it changes the temperature setting or lights up other stoves, depending on where the water falls, that’s why it looks like it “thinks” it’s a finger… you get the idea. It’s a disaster anyway.
Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023
@akosma Oh, interesting, sounds whack. Mine supposedly just screams at me, but I've only gotten it wet from wiping it with a cloth so idk.
Show threadAdrian KosmaczewskiJul 23, 2023

@reina yeah I always have paper towels nearby… you never know when you’re going to have to clean up water.

Also, the thing has a clock/timer, also touch based, that also resets if covered with water. So I use my smartphone instead, otherwise you lose the time information.

Electrolux FTW.

Show threadLars Hesel ChristensenJul 23, 2023
@akosma @reina same experience with Electrolux here. Interestingly my parents in law say they never have any issues (different brand, completely different price range), but perhaps they just do it right ™️. Nayway, never gonna buy an Electrolux stove top again.
Show threadAdrian KosmaczewskiJul 23, 2023
@larshesel @reina me neither.
Show threadMaikel 🇪🇺 | Hire Me!Jul 23, 2023
@reina but then you have to clean them 🤔😔
Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023
@maikel Yeah? What about it? I have to clean the touch interface too resulting in it startling me every time as it sounds off an alarm that it's wet ...
Show threadMaikel 🇪🇺 | Hire Me!Jul 23, 2023

@reina allow me to introduce you to the LOCK mechanism to avoid that, it usually has this symbol 🔒

Every little helpsBy Tesco

Show threadMizzBassieJul 23, 2023
@reina @nuz
I so agree. In a household with no children, I have to lock the cooktop because I keep turning things on with my (not so big) stomach when I stir the pots. It's ridiculous.
Show threadluna the doggie  Jul 23, 2023
@reina so much this, my microwave has buttons that are completely flat and look like touch buttons but actually require significant force to press down

Like please, I beg you, just give me a dial for setting the time...
Show threadReina Jul 23, 2023

@lunareclipse Please ... uuugh! I wrote about shit like this the other day. Yours sucks even more than mine though. At least I have a digital dial on mine even if it's all whack.

My parents' microwave from the 80s is fantastic. It has two dials and an open button. One dial is for the effect and the other is the timer. When you twist the timer, it'll immediately start. I love it.