BlackRoseEating meat creates four times more greenhouse gases than being vegan, landmark study finds
Couple of very important caveats they threw in there:
“Prof Scarborough said: “Cherry-picking data on high-impact, plant-based food or low-impact meat can obscure the clear relationship between animal-based foods and the environment.”
…which is an interesting way of saying that lines get blurry depending on the type of meat diet people had and/or the quantity.
Takeaway from the article shouldn’t be meat=bad and vegan=good - the takeaway should be that meat can be an environmentally responsible part of a reasonable diet if done right.
That’s both absolutely true and a massive distraction from the point. An environmentally friendly diet that includes meat is going to involve sustainable hunting not factory farming. In comparison an environmentally friendly vegan diet is staples of meat replacements and not trying to get fancy with it. It’s shit like beans instead of meat, tofu and tempeh when you feel fancy. It means rejecting substitutes that are too environmentally costly such as agave nectar as a sweetener (you should probably use beet or cane based sweetener instead).
So in short eat vegan like a poor vegan not like a rich person who thinks veganism is trendy
thehatfoxYes, I think it’s vital to avoid thinking in absolutes over carbon footprints if we are to make real progress. We can argue endlessly over the “necessity” of consuming meat, but that becomes a distraction. Many things are not “necessary”, but most people are not realistically going to live in caves wearing carbon neutral hair shirts.
We need to continue increasing transparency on the impact of different animal products, so consumers can make informed choices. While also accepting they may not always be perfect.
The only way to stop people from eating meat is to make a vegan food that tastes better than a bacon cheeseburger.
Semi-Hemi-DemigodThey haven't gotten the cheese yet but impossible whoppers are a damn good burger and lately they've been cheaper than regular ones
HubertManneyes. when you look at charts and such. Someone who exclusively ate meat for some reason who moved to chicken would have a greater impact than someone who exclusively ate chicken and went vegan. Sheep did not show up so well either so im guessing ruminants in general are not going to be so hot. Anyway I would encourage folk to keep it in mind and do what they can. I realize go vegan results in many. Well eff it all then but man just avoiding beef is big impact.
NepentheDo you remember a source for that info? I'm interested to read into it, but I'm not really sure what to even google for that
jennwiththeseaOur World in Data has a decent article about it: ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
This and the article seem like a great breakdown, thank you very much. I could have guessed chocolate would be somewhere in the middle, and I've never really thought about cheese in this context at all. I was surprised to see both of them so high up there.
This would suggest my sweet tooth is my biggest problem, at least, since beef is too expensive to be a common occurrence anyway
Someone who exclusively ate meat for some reason who moved to chicken would have a greater impact than someone who exclusively ate chicken and went vegan.
But that first person could have an even bigger environmental impact by becoming Vegan instead of only eating chicken.
yes but if you actually convince someone who eats just chicken to go vegan it will have less of an effect if you actually convince a big red meat eater to limit to chicken.
Watch as I solve this trolley problem with the Ole dual track drifting solution. They should all go vegan. You, too.
you convinced me. don't try something because its just not good enough. stay the course. good convincing.
Thank you for helping me to convince everyone else just how pathetic you sound.
I ate a double cheeseburger for dinner and it was better than any vegetable I’ve ever eaten.
CantSt0pPoppinDid you peel the lettuce off and slather some extra bacon on it lol? It’s not like you have to go out and eat moss off a tree. It’s more about just taking maybe one day a week to consider vegetarian options. That’s all it takes to help out. No one is saying don’t eat anything that casts a shadow.
I eat a ton of vegetables man. I can cook delicious vegetables are extremely low on calories, so that’s an easy win.
I just literally did that night and I thought it was a funny moment
I use to eat nothing but meat, it was really gross. I would go months without eating veggies or fruits. I started slowly trying impossible burgers then I started eating more veggies and now I can’t stop. I worked in food for so many years and cooked all kinds of meat now the smell makes me sick. I have to force my self to eat meat because of some health conditions however I eat much less and feel better than I once did. I guess its about balance and finding out what works for you but sometimes you get into a rut and don’t think too much about what you are doing to your body until its too late!
Name calling derails conversations faster than drifting trains. Put yourself in their shoes and maybe just agree to disagree.
You’d have a bigger impact by convincing 30% of the population to only have chicken, vs convincing 15% to go vegan.
Sure, and if we could only do one, we should choose accordingly. We can do both, simultanously. Exactly like how we don’t have to choose between eating less meat and driving less cars.
Or an even bigger impact by having fewer children.
This is true, however, not realistic in some parts of the world. For instance, in the United States, Republicans have waged a war on bodily autonomy, which includes the Roe v. Wade ruling and states creating departments to hunt down citizens who go out of state to have abortions. There are also countries where sex education is not prohibited. So, take these things into consideration while thinking about potential solutions. That being said, you are right, and you can do something about it by voting, if you are able to, wherever you live.
Yeah I barely eat beef anymore, mostly chicken. I don't want to give up on eating animals, especially since I'm trying to get into shape right now and it would be hard to eat healthy and get enough protein to build up muscle mass.
I keep half a dozen of my own chickens in my backyard…which means about half my daily protein intake comes from eggs (which is a great source, btw). And my chickens free-range in my backyard and largely take care of and feed themselves (supplemented with chicken feed but they get most of their daily intake from the bugs/plants in the yard). I still do eat meat almost daily, but the quantities are a lot less than what I was doing a decade ago, and beef is less than a once-a-week thing for me. Like you, I’m trying to get back in shape and watching macronutrients (like protein) very carefully and trying to hit certain daily minimum numbers.
The best-treated slaves are still slaves at the end of the day.
Do whatever you want but just so you know Arnold Schwarzenegger is a vegetarian now. It’s much less difficult than people think to get enough protein to bulk up without meat unless you’re doing hardcore body building. Beans and rice is a high protein dinner. Peanut butter is amazing for bulking.
I know and if everything goes as planned soon my dietary needs will change that this is a thing I will greatly reconsider. As of now I still have some fat reserves so I try to avoid too many carbs or fat. My theory is that I'm still capable to gain muscles while maintaining a small deficit as I have enough reserves to feed my muscles before my body decides it'd rather burn protein for energy. At the end of summer I'll go back to focus on weight loss until I'm forced to bulk because I won't be as much outside for weather and daylight reasons. I'll rethink my relationship with animal products at those points.
Oderus80% vegan. He still eats fish. eggs and chicken.
insider.com/how-arnold-schwarzenegger-gets-protei…
80% plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical stance, not a trendy diet.
Agreed. Almost Vegan isn’t Vegan but it’s something.
So nice to read a sensible comment in a sea of crazy talk.
The real takeaway should be that the Independent is complete garbage
If I source my beef or lamb from low-impact producers, could they have a lower footprint than plant-based alternatives? The evidence suggests, no: plant-based foods emit fewer greenhouse gases than meat and dairy, regardless of how they are produced.
[…]
Plant-based protein sources – tofu, beans, peas and nuts – have the lowest carbon footprint. This is certainly true when you compare average emissions. But it’s still true when you compare the extremes: there’s not much overlap in emissions between the worst producers of plant proteins, and the best producers of meat and dairy.
ourworldindata.org/less-meat-or-sustainable-meat
Plant-based foods have a significantly smaller footprint on the environment than animal-based foods. Even the least sustainable vegetables and cereals cause less environmental harm than the lowest impact meat and dairy products [9].
bossitoI upvoted because this message still didn’t reach everyone, but I guess it’s just that people are in denial… like, isn’t this obvious? And weren’t there already dozens of studies proving it?
██████████people ate meat for MILLIONS OF YEARS with negligible global warming effect from the animals
vegans going start blaming the Assyrianz for inventing husbandry before blaming Exxon Mobile BP
like dude pick your battles
That’s just it. It is about picking battles.
We are at (actually well past but…) the tipping point. Climate change is happening and we are going to see sea levels rise in our lifetimes (within the next decade or so, as per some studies).
Changing to clean energy is something that will take massive infrastructure changes and we needed to be doing that literally decades ago.
Eating a few less hamburgers and working on a more climate friendly diet can have impacts in as little as a quarter. If enough people even slightly shift their diets, that will lead to massive supply chain changes and shifts in demand. Which will actually make a difference. Nowhere near as big of one but one that can actually be done.
If your worldview is “nothing I do as an individual matters so I won’t do anything” then… okay. But this is literally something we can do and see change in the short term.
dude people will never change because you tell them too if yall actually cared you would talk about the end of factory farms (which also incudes Veggies) the corruption Comes from the system itself. you are absolutely naive if you thing a a capitalist run Vegan Diet Enforced by Law would Help the environment
mate the cut down the rainforest to grow all kinds of food. growing Veggies with Monsanto juice literally gave millions of people cancer 🙄
I genuinely have no idea what point you are trying to make. Between your run-on sentences where you lose track of what you are trying to say multiple times to the random conspiracy theories and threat of a police state it is just… wow.
But from the one coherent bit of text in your entire post
dude people will never change because you tell them too (sic)
So you are very much in the “nothing I do as an individual matters so I won’t do anything” category. Okay. Have fun.
People did not consume the amount of meat they do today. That’s why peolyused to make chicken for Christmas, it was a special treat.
You should educate yourself.
I am a vegan bro I hate meet Because I don’t like the taste. I hate vegans trying to turn a food PREFERENCE into a snobbery high horse thing. dude you eating Factory Farm Veggies is just as bad if not worse (see Monsanto)
Maybe Boop A Pipeline if you are truly morally superior
Veganism is not a food preference, you are not vegan.
Veganism is a stance to avoid harming non-human animals.
I think you forgot to take your B12 supplements like a good vegan.
it’s actually extremely sad that you are correct I was so moody and angry all day. 500 calories ain’t cutting it
That’s nice. I’m not vegan, actually, and I encourage veganism/vegetarianism but don’t consider eating meat a moral failure.
You are making prejudice assumptions and being a bit of a dick about it which is ironic since your whole supposed complaint is some fantasy vegan that fits the stereotype in your head (probably placed there by meat industry propaganda).
Also, factory farmed veggies are obviously not as bad as the meat, that’s just you being a silly twat.
your right I’m sorry
It’s alright, I do the same thing sometime. It just means you’re passionate.
So if we just stop subsidizing it so ridiculously it should go way down to sustainable levels then right?
Certainly if we also stop indirect subsidies like the failure to internalize externalities. Include the climate damage caused in the price tag, and people will love a veggy curry instead.
You have no idea of the scale we are dealing with.
www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aba7357
Vegans still care about the ban of oil and many other topics like zero waste, it is not exclusive
the whole world could also be Muslim mate.
thats what you sound like. a fascist. People have the RIGHT to choose what they eat
I got the message and I don’t care. Humans evolved to eat animals. B12 is an essential vitamin whose primary source is meat and dairy. The entire country of India is B12 deficient because of their diet:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6540890/
For humans to live, other organisms must die. We are part of the cycle. You want to preserve the biosphere that allows humans to survive? Reduce the number of humans. I am child free.
Vitamin B12 Deficiency is Endemic in Indian Population: A Perspective from North India
Vitamin B12 deficiency is believed to be widespread in Indian population. However, more data is needed to fuel a meaningful debate on preventive and therapeutic strategies.Objective of the current study is to evaluate status of vitamin B12 levels in people ...
I eat meat myself. But I reduced a lot my consumption, most people in Western countries consume far too much, even for their own health. We should consume less and better, chosing meat from sustainable farming instead of cheap meat from pastures where there should be the Amazon…
We're omnivores which means we can thrive with or without meat, B12 is simple to supplement.
Humans evolved to eat animals.
humans also evolved to die from cholera before the age of 3 what's your point
B12 is an essential vitamin whose primary source is meat and dairy
so add b12 to foods, or take b12 supplements
I am child free
not having children because you never wanted children isn't an argument unless you avoided having them specifically for the climate
You can do more than one thing to help the climate.
Sure, humans evolved to eat meat. Let's just assume that's correct, and you have the right interpretation of it.
But that doesn't mean we have to.
Humans didn't evolve to type things on a cell phone, yet here we are.
sicjokeI’ll go completely meat free when the super rich go private jet free.
Well, if everyone thinks like that nobody does anything ever… even the richest of the rich can say “it’s not because of me”, because it really isn’t. This is a man made disaster, but not by any single man. Some contribute more, others less, but the idea that only the rich polute is complete bonkers.