Antifa InternationalJul 17, 2023

"One thing I don't think people realize is that in arguments about human rights, it's not about trying to persuade the other party. It's not about them at all. They've already made up their mind.

It's about persuading the audience.

If I call out my teacher on being homophobic I'm not trying to change his opinion. I'm trying to convince any closeted kids in the room that they're not the monsters he's made them out to be.

If I argue with my aunt about how racist she's being it's not because I expect her to change her mind. It's because I'm hoping to god my cousin's kids hear and learn that maybe skin color doesn't mean what she says it means.

People will try to hush you and say 'they're not going to change their minds, don't bother' but it's not about them. It was never about them."

-sepulchritude

Show threadSusan Larson ♀️🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🌈Jul 17, 2023

@antifaintl

Ding ding ding we have a winner!

When engaging in a debate or discussion, it's crucial to focus on presenting a well-reasoned rebuttal rather than attempting to convince the other side. The primary aim should be to provide counterarguments and alternative perspectives, allowing undecided individuals to make informed decisions.

Show threadSusan Larson ♀️🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🌈Jul 17, 2023

@antifaintl

By respectfully challenging the arguments put forth by the opposing side, you can highlight any potential flaws, gaps in reasoning, or alternative evidence that may have been overlooked. This approach contributes to a more balanced and comprehensive discussion, enabling undecided individuals to evaluate different viewpoints and reach their own conclusions.

Show threadSusan Larson ♀️🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🌈Jul 17, 2023

@antifaintl

Moreover, by presenting a well-constructed rebuttal, you have the opportunity to showcase your own perspective or provide evidence that supports your position. This helps undecided individuals understand your viewpoint and potentially influences them in your favor.

Show threadSusan Larson ♀️🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🌈

@antifaintl

The ultimate goal is to foster a constructive dialogue rather than engage in a confrontational or adversarial manner. This allows all sides to be heard and evaluated, increasing the likelihood that undecided individuals will carefully consider your arguments and potentially support your stance.

Jul 17, 2023 at 9:01pmWeb
Show threadSiderea, Sibylla BostoniensisJul 18, 2023

@Susan_Larson_TN

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think logical argument is a wonderful tool but at the end of the day what wins hearts and minds, are the appeals - and assaults - of the heart. Logic is but one arrow in that quiver.

The art of debate - that is to say the art of arguing with one person to convince an audience of others - is, fundamentally, the art not of being logically right, but the art of making the other side look some sort of bad: silly or stupid or mean or cruel or wicked or unjust or unfair or weak or self-serving or whatever.

This is not hard with fascists, because they typically are silly and stupid and mean and cruel and wicked and unjust and unfair and weak and self-serving and so forth and so on. Our job, in arguing with them, is merely to bring it forth and shine a light on it.

The difficulty comes in that they aren't going to just sit there and take it. They will offer a spirited defense.

@antifaintl

Show threadSiderea, Sibylla BostoniensisJul 18, 2023

@Susan_Larson_TN

And, as well they know, the best defense is a good offense, and they will do everything they can to give offence. They understand the terms of engagement, as our side so rarely does, and will be endeavoring to make you look silly and stupid and wicked and sinful and so forth and so on.

The naive, who innocently and a bit foolishly believe that the way to win an argument with a fascist is to simply be more logically correct, and to bring a more thorough argument, are often easily made to look foolish.

Don't get me wrong: calm, methodical logic serenely delivered can be marvelously effective rhetoric. But if you don't understand that you're using it as weapon you are unlikely to wield it well; and if you do not understand you are using it as a weapon, you are unlikely to understand that it is but one weapon among many - foreclosing upon the possibility of choosing the most effective weapon for the fight.

@antifaintl

Show threadAntifa InternationalJul 18, 2023

@Susan_Larson_TN

Hard no to that, Susan.

"When you argue that fascists should be defeated through debate what you're actually suggesting is that vulnerable minorities should have to endless argue for their right to exist and that at no point should the debate be considered over and won."
-Michael J. Dolan