DC Bollard Dad
I regretfully have come to the theory that maybe Marx was wrong about socialism following capitalism. No true socialist society has emerged from capitalism, but plenty have emerged from feudalism and/or colonization. #socialism
Jul 3, 2023 at 5:21pmWeb
Show threadDC Bollard DadJul 3, 2023
The good news is that I still think communism will win. The bad news is that I think we’re due for a catastrophic societal collapse in the west first. Capitalism’s death grip on everything is just too strong. It can only be destroyed by its own doing.
#socialism
Show threadDC Bollard DadJul 3, 2023
Once our society (horrifyingly) resembles something more like feudalism, and the former power of capitalism is diminished and decentralized, then there’s a chance to start to build a better world free of capitalism and exploitation.
#socialism
Show threadLeftyLabourTechTorontoJul 3, 2023

@wbbbmr

Actually there's some evidence that later in his life, Marx came to the conclusion that it was possible to transition from feudalism to socialism.

This is a pretty interesting look at the class structure of the 19th century Russian left. This presentation is about 90 minutes long, but time well spent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WXSsSgLpRE

Show threadschalkenJul 3, 2023

@wbbbmr

For me, the 20th century is actually perfect vindication of Marx in that regard.

The Russian Revolution was defeated, but its "socialism" -- really state-led rapid capital accumulation -- became the model for swathes of the world that had missed out on in industrializing in the 19th century.

In the west, private capitalism emerged out of feudalism. Later, in the rest of the world where the private capitalist class was too weak, and the working class was too small for socialist revolution, state capitalism replaced feudalism.

Gorter predicted this quite clearly in 1923:

"But given that the proletariat, large scale industry and modern capital are far less powerful there than in Russia, the revolution will certainly establish a nationalistic capitalist state, even more certainly than in Russia. It will be the same in Asiatic Turkey, Persia, Arabia, Afghanistan, etc., where there are no modern proletarians (outside the few ports).

"When Russia was forced to introduce capitalism despite its heroic and far sighted proletariat, the issue was also settled for the Asian countries undergoing their revolutions."