@kdund @daycoder @stavvers @Jennifer_Pinkley
Spinnakers have been in use for centuries.
@kdund @BillySmith @daycoder @stavvers @[email protected] One could presumably have a backup engine to get one out of the doldrums. (In the days of sailing ships, they used a small boat with oarsmen to pull the ship into a wind.) Although it could be that a backup engine would add too much weight.
Gotta go watch MASTER AND COMMANDER now...
@kdund @BillySmith @daycoder @stavvers @Jennifer_Pinkley One of the exciting aspects of this, which makes them more promising in a modern context, is that sails can only reach winds at the top of a mast. The mast of the HMS Victory reached just 63m (205ft) in altitude above the water, and that was considered enormous in the Age of Sail. However, winds at higher altitudes both faster and more consistent than winds at sea level. So if you can release a kite on a wire to pull you along, it can spool out to potentially hundreds of meters and access faster, more reliable winds.
This is not a new idea, companies have been trying to perfect this technology for decades. I really hope they can finally get there! If they can make it cost effective, it could be a big part of the solution in reducing the otherwise quite hard to abate shipping emissions. https://inhabitat.com/transportation-tuesday-wind-powered-cargo-ship-takes-sail/
@k9 @kdund @daycoder @stavvers @Jennifer_Pinkley
This type of sail has been in use for centuries in fast yachts.
There's one form-factor of racing yacht that has a system for storing and launching the flying sails that's standard across most yacht designs.
@BillySmith @k9 @kdund maybe I’m missing something, but spinnaker ≠ kite.
This piece doesn’t mention a spinnaker once, for example:
https://www.yachtingworld.com/extraordinary-boats/armorkite-650-kite-surfing-yacht-sailing-126194
“But standing in front of this boat (I’m not sure we can even call it a sailing boat?), without a mast, boom, stanchions or any apparent sailhandling gear, I’m beginning to wonder if that local madness isn’t contagious.”
@BillySmith One big difference between this and a spinnaker is that this is a lifting system, whereas a spinnaker is wholly drag-based. Wingsails on their own are sorta old, but the problem with a fixed wingsail is that performance becomes very dependent on what direction you're sailing relative to the wind. Having a free-flying lifting sail structure allows you to get all of the efficiency of a wing with (better) flexibility vs. a straight sail.
It's just insanely hard to control.
TY. :D
Wingsails. :D
I knew what they looked like, but i didn't know the name. :D
I'll dig through the tech-spec's to see how well the kite-sails work.
@BillySmith Kitesails are great on paper - you're looking at like 30-40% more power generation vs. a wingsail even. There's even complete memes like the SP80 high speed sailboat that wants to hit 80kts that use them.
They work great for sporting or for one-off demos, the problem is then using them at sea, for a long time, in poor weather. The kite isn't cheap and if it crashes you're probably not getting it back - so a lot is riding on the flight controller to keep it around.
@BillySmith I have a few friends who work on stationary and mobile kitesail control and it's only like... the last 5-10 years that flying them truly automatically became realistic in my opinion. Even then I don't think that they'll work in "the real ocean" because the real world hates your clever control algorithm and will hit you with the worst wind at the wrong time and goodbye sail.
A few papers I liked
* https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Richard-Leloup/publication/269695472_Kite_and_classical_rig_sailing_performance_comparison_on_a_one_design_keel_boat/links/57bebe1e08aeda1ec3864a33/Kite-and-classical-rig-sailing-performance-comparison-on-a-one-design-keel-boat.pdf
* https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/44725651.pdf
* https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1312/11/1/117
Also, looking at canal boats in London, and i think, "Living on a boat would be nice", but then i remember the seas around coastal Scotland in Winter... :D
@daveirving @kdund @BillySmith @daycoder @stavvers @Jennifer_Pinkley Sure, but they go by ocean currents, not winds; and deviating further to try and get more wind is...likely to make ship traffic take longer, and be more difficult to handle multiple ships crossing a singular passageway.
Also, imagine trying to sail through the Suez Canal - the EverGiven has enough difficulty as it is.
@AT1ST @kdund @BillySmith @daycoder @stavvers @Jennifer_Pinkley
Sailing ships used the currents because it reduced voyage time.
You probably need to read up on naval history.
@daveirving @kdund @BillySmith @daycoder @stavvers @Jennifer_Pinkley I might be misunderstanding something (Do all currents align with winds?), but regardless:
There were way less sailing ships back in the day than there are engine ships now, especially along the exact same routes at the same time. That is partially a problem - especially given the Suez and Panama Canals not being very particularly wide.
@kdund @BillySmith @daycoder @stavvers @Jennifer_Pinkley also ships these days are larger than they were in the days of sail so all the bridges they go under can't cope with putting sails on top of existing ships.
Not many old ships had to have fold-down sails but the new wind assisted ones do need to fold away their wind assist tech.
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