Eniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023

Am I the only one worried about devs getting caught in false positives with the valve banning AI assets thing? Cause I seem to be the only one. I don't trust Valve farther than I can throw them so I'm not sure I trust them with this

Like I know people hate AI work but if that hatred leads you to say "yes I fully expect Valve to be accurate, fair and reasonable about this" then I think you may have let your hate carry you somewhere bad because Valve is not known for those things on the back end. If you don't believe me ask people who've had their external key capabilities stripped or games that have been branded as "adult games" even though they're not. Or ask devs who make porny games which exist in a superimposed quantum state of being allowed and being banned at the same time

Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)

How is Valve going to curate against AI work? Are they going to run an algorithm to detect it? Because studies are already coming out that those algorithms have a high degree of false positives. Elsewhere someone said they're doing it on text, too. Recently a study came out that said AI detection algorithms disproportionately falsely flagged text written by non native English speakers as "AI generated"

How are you supposed to prove to Valve that you created something yourself? Seems like it'd be pretty hard to impossible. What is the burden of proof required? If you hired a freelancer, is the contract sufficient proof? What if that contractor did use AI generation, unbeknownst to you?

Hate to be the slippery slope gal but I can see many ways this could screw over devs who never did anything wrong

Jun 29, 2023 at 2:13pmWeb
Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
Sorry if I'm not cheering about a situation where innocent people are gonna inevitably get caught in the crossfire
Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
And we all know Valve is never gonna hire a team of humans to adjudicate this. Their MO is to set up an algorithmic system and then forget about it and good luck to you if you ever find yourself on the wrong end of the system, because *nobody* in the indie space has a Valve rep anymore, so good luck ever talking to an actual human being who can do more than quote their rulebook at you
Show threadAbyssal RookJun 29, 2023
@eniko Steam has been flooded with no-effort asset flip copy-paste jobs for literal years. I'm going to be honest, it's a LITTLE weird that they're so stuck in this that they want to automate the entire process.
Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
@AbyssalRook might be because of impending EU legislation?
Show threadBrian JeffearsJun 29, 2023
@eniko Their last Great Initiative was, what, Community Tags? AI wrangling as the successor to that bodes...poorly.
Show threadMrL314 💚 (#SMKDX)Jun 29, 2023

@eniko my favorite solution to “let’s throw AI at the problem!”:

“let’s throw AI at the problem!”

Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
@MrL314 every time I had a problem and I threw AI at the problem, boom! I had a whole new other problem
Show threadMrL314 💚 (#SMKDX)Jun 29, 2023
@eniko damn, only one new problem? Lucky duck…
Show threadWinter Wolves GamesJun 29, 2023
@eniko yes I just tried with 30 backgrounds, mixing some I made with AI and some human, and the tool was 70% accurate... so not sure how they can decide or ask for proofs :/
Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
@winterwolves that's like flipping a goddamn coin
Show threadWinter Wolves GamesJun 29, 2023
@eniko yes, well I even keep sketches of art, even from years ago, so I could show them but it shouldn't be something that devs expect to do lol
I do it because I'm nutz :D
Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
@winterwolves yeah I'm sure people are just like "well just prove it's original work" and like...... okay, how??
Show threadWinter Wolves GamesJun 29, 2023
@eniko also I just hope it doesn't become like with adult content... where indies have some rules and AAA games have different rules/exceptions... :|
Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
@winterwolves oh it definitely will, AAA is definitely gonna use AI assets and Valve never wants to offend them
Show threadWinter Wolves GamesJun 29, 2023
@eniko true, save the rich, starve the poor...
Show threadBryy MillerJun 29, 2023
@eniko @winterwolves FUCKING YUP.
Show threadSciencetasticJun 30, 2023

@eniko @winterwolves I'll tell you now, yes they do, and it makes sense and this is a move by valve will hurt more than help and is being done in the name of people fearing for their jobs, who really really don't understand how media law works... At all... And if it did work the way they think it did they'd be so very very fucked and the only thing left would be Disney.

Fun fact memes are technically illegal, but the EU passed an exemption that while legally doesn't truly make sense is the reason why the internet didn't explode a few years ago.

However an even funner the reposting of a meme or the sharing of a meme does violate copyright law and the fact that oftentimes the creator of a meme is unknown does not absolve the individuals infringement or prevent the Creator from enforcing their copyright. Viral content is just a gigantic lawsuit waiting to happen if someone was a big enough asshole with enough money to do so. In fact Hutcherson Law exists as is a firm specializing in meme copyright lawXD

Show threadWinter Wolves GamesJun 29, 2023
@eniko like this post: https://mastodon.social/@winterwolves/110622422279023227
this one for sure is not AI lol! but they can't think that every devs has access to 5 years old sketches (some don't even have it for art commissioned the same year!)
Show threadEniko (moved ➡ gamedev.place)Jun 29, 2023
@winterwolves yeah I don't usually keep sketches from freelancers around
Show threadWinter Wolves GamesJun 29, 2023
@eniko TSK you're not a true indie!!
True indie spend 1h each day making a video showing the progress from sketch to final colored image like I did! lol
Show threadBryy MillerJun 29, 2023
@eniko @winterwolves not like. is.
Show threadAederJun 29, 2023
@eniko You're obviously meant to keep 30 TB of video painstainkingly documenting the whole year(s) long dev effort.

Then the videos get flagged as AI generated, and you get banned.
Show threadJake in the desertJun 30, 2023
@eniko yeah, it sucks. One of the first of many things AI is gonna fuck up. What an age, eh? 🙄
Show threadkimchiteaJul 1, 2023
@eniko Just read this blog post looking at the study you mentioned, and it's amusing and entirely predictable how trivially easy it is to evade detection. https://www.aiweirdness.com/dont-use-ai-detectors-for-anything-important/
Don't use AI detectors for anything important

I've noted before that because AI detectors produce false positives, it's unethical to use them to detect cheating. Now there's a new study that shows it's even worse. Not only do AI detectors falsely flag human-written text as AI-written, the way in which they do it is biased. This is

AI Weirdness