Mastodon MigrationJun 24, 2023

Subject: What's going on with Meta?

To: @Gargron, @ruud, @jerry, @supernovae, @stux, @trumpet, @kev and other large instance admins

Rumors are tearing this place apart out here about secret deals with #Meta. The latest is that Meta has held #NDA meetings with some of you and they will federate with large instances under contracts providing financial support (1) (2).

This is a time for leadership, not silence. Please, what's going on?

(1) https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110598855375585873
(2) https://mastodon.social/@alexeheath/110596207691212890

Show threadEugen RochkoJun 24, 2023
@mastodonmigration I am not aware of any secret deals with Meta. As far as I can tell people are just making stuff up. There is little to comment on until Meta's platform launches.
Show threadRobinJun 24, 2023
@Gargron @mastodonmigration and this from Meta itself ? Any comment?
Show threadChiasmJun 24, 2023
@Gargron @mastodonmigration @Chimaera What they do with the ActivityPub protocol is up to them... That announcement they have there wouldn't need any instance admins working with them; they can easily develop their own way of being part of the fediverse.
Show threadRobinJun 24, 2023
@chiasm @Gargron @mastodonmigration Meta also has a long history of consuming any company they see as a competitor. See Instagram, WhatsApp
Show threadCody Dostal Jun 24, 2023
@Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron @mastodonmigration not really possible to consume Mastodon as a whole. They can federate through ActivityPub, and that seems to be the extent of what they’re doing. No idea what they’d be talking to some instance admins about.
Show threadRobinJun 24, 2023
@dostalcody @chiasm @Gargron @mastodonmigration well this admin said no thank you. Sounds a lot like an invitation to a secret meeting https://fosstodon.org/@kev/110592625692688836
Kev Quirk (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Yeah, that's gonna be a hard pass from me thanks, Rachel. Zero interest in having a conversation with #Meta "off the record" or otherwise. Sharing this purely to be as transparent as possible with our members.

Fosstodon
Show threadRobinJun 24, 2023
@dostalcody @chiasm @Gargron @mastodonmigration also the phrase Embrace, Extend, Extinguish has been brought up
Show threadCody Dostal 
@Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron @mastodonmigration of course it has. But since mastodon is fully open source and has tons of instances, the most they can do is become the biggest instance, which they will be. Not much more they can do IMHO.
Jun 24, 2023 at 3:19pmWeb
Show threadMastodon MigrationJun 24, 2023
@dostalcody @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron Yes, we are instances, but we are also a community. When something big and disruptive happens to a community it is best faced with communication and proactive planning. Of course, there are guardrails, but we don't want to have to rely on them. Let's try to steer this down the center of the road.
Show threadCody Dostal Jun 24, 2023
@mastodonmigration @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron I do agree with you. I’m not trying to say no one has a right to be concerned. Absolutely we can be concerned and it’s absolutely okay to speak with your instance admins. But I don’t think we should approach with a combative stance or otherwise imply all of them are doing wrong. Healthy communication about this is needed. I’m not a fan of Meta coming in either. I see nothing good coming from it. I also don’t agree with immediately defederating them. My opinion is we should let them try to be a good member of the fediverse. The moment they show they have no plans to be, that’s when we can defederate. I also understand many won’t agree with this stance and I’m completely ok with that as well. I think each instance should see what their members want, and go with that.
Show threadMastodon MigrationJun 24, 2023
@dostalcody @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron This is the kind of respectful communications we need to be having. It is OK if people have different opinions on what to do about Meta, but the ability to have constructive conversations about how to deal with their arrival can be drowned out by catastrophic thinking which can lead to a collective paralysis.
Show thread4dw@r3  🦬Jun 25, 2023
@dostalcody @mastodonmigration @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron I strongly disagree given their history and given that they have in no way appeared to make any organizational change I think any instance admin that doesn't openly state they want to defederate should have their instance defederated.
Show threadGrutjesJun 25, 2023

@dostalcody

This is a very naive take.
Meta will never be a 'good member of the fediverse' as its objectives are the opposite of the fediverse.
If you want to start a detox / rehab, don't invite the dealers.
@mastodonmigration @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron

Show threadZ O R A N G R B I CJun 25, 2023

@Grutjes @dostalcody @mastodonmigration @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron I don't think either. However, the OPs idea has stuff going for it. Respectful comm and a clear stance on where you stand. You want to join Meta. Your choice, just accept the consequences.

I think it's time for people on big instances to start moving to smaller ones.

*edit=typo

Show threadsi_iriniJun 27, 2023

@Grutjes

you have no idea how much i agree !!!
you are so right !!
thank you !!

@dostalcody @mastodonmigration @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron

Show threadZ O R A N G R B I CJun 25, 2023

@dostalcody @mastodonmigration @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron There's something called a "trackrecord". It shows what you have repeatedly done and gives an insight into your mind setting. Meta is beyond the benefit of a doubt. They used up their quota of it. Personally, I am glad my admin, @Curator, will defederate if they appear.

However, it is my opinion and not necessarily everybody's. The fact that I can have it and express it, means you're onto something with your approach. 😉👏

Show threadthe roamerJun 24, 2023

@mastodonmigration @dostalcody @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron

Well put. We need a shared discussion of these critical matters. Meta's arrival will affect everyone on the Fediverse, and the actions of the large instances will impact on everyone, whatever instance they are on.

Show threadCrazyMyraJun 24, 2023
@the_roamer @mastodonmigration @dostalcody @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron
It's entirely feasible that the discussions were about real-world things like how the sudden increased flow of traffic could overwhelm existing servers.
I'm not very good at conspiracy theories. Sorry.
Show threadRobinJun 24, 2023
@OutOnTheMoors I think it was the secrecy and learning second hand about meetings and NDAs that lead to suspicion. TBF Meta has a horrible track record.
Show threadthe roamerJun 24, 2023

@OutOnTheMoors @mastodonmigration @dostalcody @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron

Noted, and I hope you are right. I am not a natural conspiracy theorist either, but I know an evasive answer when I see one.

Some admins give clear answers, others don't. That second group includes Eugen. I would have thought he can make time to give precise answers to the precise concerns that have been raised, rather than shrugging his shoulders murmuring "it's all rumours".

Very much hope you are right.

Show threadRobinJun 24, 2023
@the_roamer @OutOnTheMoors same
Show threadCrazyMyraJun 24, 2023

@the_roamer @mastodonmigration @dostalcody @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron

And as far as the "NDAs" are concerned, it's only people who don't have privileged access - because they can't be trusted not to let the cat out of the bag early - who breathlessly "live" report the latest Apple launch. The media that respects embargoes has had a look, and has copies of all the speeches, days in advance.

Show threadjgeorgeJun 25, 2023
@dostalcody @Chimaera @chiasm @Gargron @mastodonmigration With all due respect, I can’t tell if this comment is simply naive or intentionally obtuse. These “tons of instances” are funded out of pocket by their admins, Meta could, with little effort, flood the feed with enough data for many/most of those admins to give up for purely financial reasons. I don’t know anyone who would bankrupt themselves fighting a war of principles with Meta - pitting “no money but lots of principles” loses to “all the money and no principles” every time. Meta doesn’t have to destroy all of Mastodon, all they have to do is make it irrelevant. If 95% of Mastodon traffic comes from FB/IG, why would any new user join any instance other than that one? 99.9999% of internet users couldn’t give a rodent’s posterior about FOSS, federation, or anything of the sort. They want a place to be online and see everybody else online.