nixCraft 🐧
Wow. Red Hat cutting back RHEL source availability: CentOS Stream will now be the sole repository for public RHEL-related source code releases. For Red Hat customers and partners, source code will remain available via the Red Hat Customer Portal. https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/furthering-evolution-centos-stream What do you think? #linux #opensource
Furthering the evolution of CentOS Stream

As the CentOS Stream community grows and the enterprise software world tackles new dynamics, we want to sharpen our focus on CentOS Stream as the backbone of enterprise Linux innovation. We are continuing our investment in and increasing our commitment to CentOS Stream. CentOS Stream will now be the sole repository for public RHEL-related source code releases.

Jun 21, 2023 at 4:31pmWeb
Show threadAaron Toponce ⚛️Jun 21, 2023
@nixCraft RHEL is overrated.
Show threadnixCraft 🐧Jun 21, 2023
@atoponce RHEL is popular because corporate can call someone when things go wrong, or a sysadmin or IT guy leaves the job or drop dead. They provide training and support as long as you buy the contract. Otherwise, Debian, Ubuntu, and others are good for anyone.
Show threadAaron Toponce ⚛️Jun 21, 2023

@nixCraft Yes, I'm familiar. I'm RHEL certified and was an RHX for a couple years certifying other admins.

Paying for support contracts means you don't have the confidence in your IT department to address things that go wrong. Sure, the suits can sleep at night as an insurance policy, but it also encourages the team to not take ownership of their infrastructure. "RH can fix it".

There are also plenty of 3rd party Debian contractors that you can pay for support.

RHEL is still overrated.

Show threadAaronJun 21, 2023
@atoponce @nixCraft As someone with several active cases at Redhat right now, it's nice to be able to pull them in when I'm stuck scratching my head on a problem.

That said, so far every single support case I've opened with Redhat is because they rototilled something that was already working in the previous version and isn't now.

They somehow manage to be both out of date and unstable at the same time, worst of both worlds.
Show threadRandom Damage 🌻Jun 21, 2023

@nixCraft contrary to what a lot of people are going to say, they aren't violating the GPL with this.

If they distribute binaries to you, you have access to the source code those binaries were built from.

That's all the GPL promises.

Show threadMike WhitneyJun 21, 2023

@RandomDamage @nixCraft

The GPL also promises that they cannot restrict what you do with those sources. If they try to contractually limit you from redistributing the sources after buying a licensed binary, that would be a violation.

Show threadZorin =^o.o^=Jun 21, 2023

@RandomDamage @nixCraft But the source is GPLed, too. So if they distribute it to me, I can redistribute it.

What's stopping AlmaLinux from obtaining the source legitimately this way and redistributing it?

Show threadRandom Damage 🌻Jun 21, 2023
@zorinlynx @nixCraft nothing, really.
Show threadA.M. RowsellJun 21, 2023
@RandomDamage But the thing is, you can still get a free trial copy of RHEL. At least, you could the last time I checked. And I believe they have a program for students/developers. so once again don't they have to release the code to any of those people who ask?
Show threadAnkit PatiJun 21, 2023

@RandomDamage @nixCraft The customers can then turn around and publish it in an open GitHub repo.

There’s nothing RedHat can legally do about that, according to the GPL.

Their developer program allows free access to their binaries, which implies free access to the source.

They could try to punish people by deactivating their accounts, but they’ll have to find a way to fingerprint the source code they offer to each person. Not realistic.

Show threadBruno RohéeJun 21, 2023
@RandomDamage @nixCraft Exactly. That exact model was the Cygnus one actually. Nothing new. Also nothing stops a customer from redistributing the source, as people did with Cygnus source.
Show threadfinn Jun 21, 2023
@nixCraft They cannot claim to be open source of it is not open. A company sharing proprietary information with paying customers is not open source!
Show threadOwenJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft
What worries me is that it won't be long before they start looking at ways to monetize #fedora .
Show threadBrage FuglsethJun 21, 2023
@easytarget Fedora is a separate entity, Red Hat does not have that kind of control over it. Furthermore, they benefit from Fedora being used by as many people as possible, so I fail to see why they would have any interest in monetizing it, even if they could. RHEL is how they make money.
Show threadOwenJun 21, 2023
@bragefuglseth
I think you are right, but I'd also be totally unsurprised if there is somebody in RH/IBM tasked with finding a way to do exactly that..
Show threadnumber137Jun 21, 2023
@nixCraft they are trying to screw AlmaLinux and RockyLinux 😑
Show threadBad News NobodyJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft IBM strikes again. Big corpo doing big corpo stuff I guess.
Show threadHimmelssohnJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft I liked Red Hat for their kernel contributions, and didn't mind companies paying for it. Never touched Fedora, though.
Show threadChou pas gothJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft I don't get it. If it's still free software, what prevents any customer to publish the source code at each release?
Show threadKevin P. FlemingJun 21, 2023
@jenesuispasgoth @nixCraft It's a violation of the terms of their support contracts.
Show threadChou pas gothJun 21, 2023

@kevin @nixCraft but aren't these terms also in contradiction with the GPL (let's say not BSD-like licenses for the sake of argument)?

IANAL obviously.

Show threadKevin P. FlemingJun 21, 2023
@jenesuispasgoth @nixCraft No. The GPL terms do not have any bearing on support contracts.
Show threadChou pas gothJun 21, 2023
@kevin @nixCraft yes, I was too hasty in my answer. :)
Show threadChou pas gothJun 21, 2023

@kevin @nixCraft mmmh I tooted too fast. Looks like a "warranty voiding" situation : sure, I can open the blu-ray drive, but then since I may have tampered with the laser etc., the vendor won't fix it if I break the seal.

Although this analogy has limits: in the case of RHEL source code, nothing has been altered (supposedly).

Show threadKevin P. FlemingJun 21, 2023

@jenesuispasgoth @nixCraft The GPL, like nearly all open source software licenses, disclaims all warranty and support obligations. The publisher of the software is obligated only to provide the complete corresponding source code. Anything they do beyond that is under terms outside of the GPL.

It may be surprising to some people, but this arrangement is not a violation of any terms of the relevant software licenses.

Show threadالتنينوكسJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft I am now sure to understand. Will all development efforts shift to centos stream and its repository while others repos will remain archived?
Show threadJakeJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft what a bummer. RHEL is so popular simply because of support contracts.
Show threadMichael RichardsonJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft It's not a new trend at Redhat.
Show threadArehandoroJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft Also for those that have a free developer account.
Show threadRFJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft Not a fan. I knew IBM would do something eventually, took longer than I expected to be honest.
Show thread⊥ᵒᵚ Cᵸᵎᶺᵋᶫ∸ᵒᵘ ☑️Jun 21, 2023
@nixCraft is fine. Hobbyists use CentOs, don't need the payed support of RHEL. Is it legal with GPL to do though?
Show threadScottTheGeek Jun 21, 2023

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Show threadTodd MillecamJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft I think it's time to create the CentOS+ distro where we use ye ol' GPL to get back access to the code and then have a 100% separate entity manage it.
Show threadolloJun 21, 2023
@nixCraft Good thing we already ran away when they started destroying CentOS. It was clear that this was the beginning of the end.
Show threadMCNJun 22, 2023
@ollo @nixCraft
🖕red hat