EdBJun 20, 2023
Aral Balkan

It’s very interesting to see who in the fediverse is falling in line behind Silicon Valley and Big Tech and who is not.

And no, we can’t all just get along.

Big Tech is the antithesis of the cooperative and humanitarian values of federation and decentralisation. You can either be an apologist for surveillance capitalists or support the nascent ethical alternatives to their toxic business model that’s detrimental to human rights and democracy.

Pick a side. History will remember your choice.

Jun 20, 2023 at 6:44amWeb
Show threadDan ShickJun 20, 2023

@aral

Pick a side. History will remember your choice.

until FB rewrites it of course :(

Show threadmpoletiekJun 20, 2023
@aral lol... I think the point of federation is we don't have to align to a binary framework of we don't want to.
Show threadmpoletiekJun 20, 2023
@aral in other words... There is always a 3rd way.
Show threadVon XylofonJun 20, 2023
@mpoletiek @aral Yeah. I don't get what the fuss is about. Defederate them if you want (you most likely do), don't if you don't want to. This is the point of freedom in FOSS. Freedom includes the ability to do shitty things, and it includes you not having to talk to them because of that. Simple.
Show threadAral BalkanJun 20, 2023
@mpoletiek “Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.” – Karl Popper
Show threadmpoletiekJun 20, 2023
@aral are we talking about violence or technology choices individuals have available to them? Because all I'm saying is there are more than 2 choices when it comes to social media architectures.
Show threadAral BalkanJun 20, 2023
@mpoletiek Are the two entirely separate?
Show threadmpoletiekJun 20, 2023
@aral good question. I for one do not equate words to violence. So I would say yes, but I understand a lot of people would disagree with me. My point is we're not stuck with this choice. It's not tolerance, it's a third way.
Show threadOblomovJun 20, 2023
@mpoletiek @aral given Facebook's recognize responsibility in the Myanmar genocide, I find it very hard to argue in favor of the two being separate. There is nothing to gain, and everything to lose —both ethically and practically— from federating with P92.
Show threadOBELIKSJun 20, 2023
@aral People still think of these companies as garages that made it. And that they must be good and well meaning if they made it this far. Yeeeah...
Everybody is quick to forget the history if you don't hammer it in them. Even then some just ignore it.
I never imagined this could go downhill so fast. I only feel for those that will lose their safe space if it goes too far. I don't really need this, but some do and they will suffer.
Show threadPēteris KrišjānisJun 20, 2023
@aral what "falling in line behind" actually means here? I don't like this rhetoric, but maybe I don't fully get what it means.
Show threadpetur 😶🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼Jun 20, 2023
@aral it's funny how the fediverse is already killing itself... well done
Show threadAral BalkanJun 20, 2023
@peturdainn Resisting corporate takeover is not the same as killing itself. Quite the contrary.
Show threadMastodon MigrationJun 20, 2023
@aral It is easy to get drawn into divisive rhetoric. Assume these demons are intentionally sowing dissention, are you not doing their bidding by gunning down half of our side before the enemy even arrives at the gate? We win this by standing together against corporate predation, by building solid consensus based on real information, not by creating chaos with assumptions and purity tests. You are right, this is a terrible threat, but we have the power here if we are smart, prepared and united.
Show threadMiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛Jun 20, 2023
@mastodonmigration @aral And what else is Aral's call but to stand together to face the enemy. On the right side...
Show threadMastodon MigrationJun 20, 2023
@miklo @aral The entire "with us or against us" frame generates polarization. It is not clear what exactly is "for" and what is "against" yet, because we don't have real information, just assumptions. The implied consequence of not passing this ambiguous purity test is to be deemed an enemy before we even understand what the real enemy is up to. Most everyone here is against FB dominating our Fediverse. Let's educate and train them for what's to come, not alienate them.
Show threadOblomovJun 20, 2023
@mastodonmigration @miklo @aral that's the thing, it's not true that most here are against. A lot of Twitter migration users would be more than happy with it.
Show threadOblomovJun 20, 2023
@mastodonmigration @miklo @aral
(For reference: <https://sociale.network/@oblomov/110575602869308551>)
Oblomov (@[email protected])

Allegato: 1 immagine Well at least now they are starting to say the quiet part loud, and unsurprisingly it's the fact that they don't actually care about open protocols and federation, and are perfectly fine with the genocidal corporate silos:

sociale.network
Show threadLoukas (They/Them) 🏳️‍⚧️Jun 20, 2023
@mastodonmigration @aral Yes, we need to think how we can build solidarity, trust and organisation.
Show threadAral BalkanJun 20, 2023

@mastodonmigration Well, if half “our side” was ready to fall in line behind Silicon Valley and Big Tech they were not on “our side”, were they?

Facebook is so anathema to everything that federation and decentalisation stands for in principle that none of this should have to be said.

Show threadMastodon MigrationJun 20, 2023
@aral That's the point, though. Half of our side is not behind Silicon Valley and Big Tech. By and large most people here despise corporate social media and have come here to escape its predation. We are not going back, and we are not going to let them take over our Fediverse. There are few enemies here. Some might need to understand better how these demon's fight, their history and what we need to do to prepare for them. But we can do that. We can build an effective response. We have the power.
Show threadAral BalkanJun 20, 2023

@mastodonmigration Right, so speaking out against Facebook/Meta/etc., is not “gunning down half our side” because half our side is not on the Facebook/Meta/Big Tech/Surveillance Capitalism bandwagon.

No one who isn’t in bed with Silicon Valley/Big Tech has reason to get upset about anything I’ve said.

Show threadMastodon MigrationJun 20, 2023
@aral Well that's good. Seems like a good place to leave it. Appreciate your spirit and perspectives on defending open systems and the Fediverse in particular.
Show threadbelikekramerJun 20, 2023

@aral Everyone should listen to this FB is a threat
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5zEADchJBiuvdiA8aSo2Vr?si=e5abcbbec2e44246

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0H1WpwpG2ydoavalSPz6Y4?si=d99691b063aa4938

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5zEADchJBiuvdiA8aSo2Vr?si=e9f26374c3a744e6

Part One: Let's Look at the Facebook Papers

Listen to this episode from Behind the Bastards on Spotify. Robert and Jamie Loftus sit down to discuss the massive, damning 'Facebook leaks'. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omny.fm/listener for privacy information.

Spotify
Show threadTheriacJun 20, 2023
@aral

https://yewtu.be/t_EEhUgon7w?t=47
Show threadRokosunJun 20, 2023
@aral most people I know here are not in support of Meta/Facebook nor do they trust them in any way, and for good reasons. There seem to be some confusion about whether defederating them is the right course of action in this sinario, as we don't yet have any info about Meta's business plans and how it might be affecting the rest of fedi. I also think its fucked up that some instance admins are being harassed over this drama, this is what I wrote about it - https://fosstodon.org/@futureisfoss/110572312022616810
Rokosun (@[email protected])

I don't think it was a good idea for instance admins to agree to talk to Meta under a nondisclosure agreement, but that DOESN'T make it an excuse for people to go and harass those admins. If anything they're the victims of Meta IMO, and a lot of them may still be in favor of blocking Meta regardless of whether they agreed to the meeting or not. I think we have to stick together in situations like this and act accordingly, keep in mind that "divide and conquer" is a proven strategy.

Fosstodon
Show threadTwee JackJun 20, 2023
@aral

Is there anywhere on ActivityPub where I can pre-order a Meta-block?
Show threadJames Harris - Find my bridged Bluesky accountJun 20, 2023
@aral this feels like a pretty awkward stance. You have a platform that has grown significantly in the last year due to Twitter’s implosion. Billions of people use Meta products (Facebook/Instagram/Messenger/Whatsapp). I don’t feel like the Mastodon community is wholly comprised of big tech haters and FOSS advocates like it once was. I don’t want Meta to come here, but at the same time “free and open” swings both ways, you can’t stop them from adopting protocols, and that was by design of FOSS
Show threadAral BalkanJun 20, 2023

@jbwharris You can’t stop them from adopting protocols, true.

That doesn’t mean you have to lay down a red carpet for them either.

Social pressure works.

The design of ActivityPub, Mastodon, etc., is compatible with how Big Tech scales. So there’s nothing technically stopping them from centralising/capturing it (in the same way the web, email, XMPP has been centralised and captured—so not entirely, of course—but for all intents and purposes insofar as the mainstream is concerned).

Show threadChaseJun 20, 2023

@aral @jbwharris but they captured their respective markets because, at the time, they offered a more compelling product than what was currently available. That's not to say they didn't eventually leverage their positions, but search before Google was a chore.

I don't agree with the scorched earth policy — if people want openness to be the standard, they need to need to actually contribute to the projects. Meta doesn't need Mastodon, they already have the cash and audience.

Show threadJames Harris - Find my bridged Bluesky accountJun 20, 2023
@caramelbeard @aral I think Meta needs something more than you'd think. They have Facebook, but know that's for oldsters. They have Instagram, but that's barely a social network in a tangible sense of where modern discourse occurs. They pivoted to VR and nobody cared. Twitter always existed at the axis of being where newsworthy dialogue occurred. They're desperate to occupy that vacuum if Twitter capitulates and have wanted into that space for a long time.
Show threadJames Harris - Find my bridged Bluesky accountJun 20, 2023
@caramelbeard @aral The Fediverse is definitely at an awkward crossroads. Meta has products that people I know actually use. My friends and family would probably be much more keen to try something new from Meta than they ever would be to try Mastodon. I'm 8 months on Mastodon and find there's very few people I actually know using the platform anymore. Sure there's growth, but is it actually your friends and family, the people you probably want to connect with on a social network? Probably not.
Show threadChaseJun 20, 2023

@jbwharris @aral agreed. Mastodon feels like a open project that actually has a chance (does anybody remember diaspora??)

Meta certainly doesn't have that cache with younger audiences anymore but can still throw their weight around. I want federated spaces to win because they’re the superior experience and not because we raised our walls higher.

Show threadCatweazleJun 20, 2023
@aral, I'm using a Browser from an European cooperative since 7 Years, which also put this Mastodon instance for it's users.
Show threadAral BalkanJun 20, 2023
@Catweazle Hmm, I hadn’t realised Vivaldi was owned by its employees. That’s definitely a huge plus. I just really wish they were also open source.
Show threadCatweazleJun 20, 2023
@aral, this is also an internal debate, but in the first line Vivaldi is OpenSource, but not in the "traditional" sense. The code is fully accessible and auditable, in the community they even teach how the user can modify it. It is not closed source, just that 5% of the script with respect to its UI is licensed as proprietary to prevent Google and MS from getting their hands on it, with which they would definitely monopolize the browser market.
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/10549/modding-vivaldi
Modding Vivaldi

Modding Vivaldi We know you love customization. And you love it beyond using extensions and applying themes. Many of you started modifying Vivaldi's files, e...

Vivaldi Forum
Show threadVHaschJun 20, 2023

@aral

Twice I've watched a company I worked for gladly get gobbled up by huge international corporations. They sacrificed their core values, allowed decades-long employees to be sacked, and became horrible places to work. All to chase that one big payout that comes with selling out.

I had hoped to never see that from the inside again.

Show threadOcéane ⏚Jun 21, 2023
@aral I mean, they've ruined the internet once already. It's still their business model. They had conversations under NDAs with large instance admins. Maybe we should just wait until people start to follow each other, and get another Facebook-scale mstdn.fr debacle?
Show threadMatt SickerJun 21, 2023
@aral I imagine that some who are aligning with Big Tech are part of Big Tech. Do note that not all employees in Big Tech agree with what other Big Tech companies are doing (e.g., who likes adtech? really?)