Dare Obasanjo

It’s a weird own goal for various Mastodon admins who are running a decentralized social network based on interoperable protocols to pledge that they won’t interoperate with services from existing social networks if built on the same open protocols.

It’s not even the hypocrisy, it’s just dumb and undermines the entire point of interoperable protocols.

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/06/19/not-that-kind-of-open

Not That Kind of ‘Open’

Link to: https://fedipact.online/

Daring Fireball
Jun 20, 2023 at 12:40amWeb
Show threadBrandonJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life pretty much. I don't like it either but open is open.
Show threadsuldrew 🚲🏳️‍🌈Jun 20, 2023
@carnage4life I think of it like spammers. They follow RFC822 and SMTP to the letter. We still block them.
Show threadMarcinW 🖥️🚀Jun 20, 2023
@suldrew @carnage4life it's more like blocking entire Gmail out of fear of spammers, while your own service is known of sending out racist emails.
Show threadCatherine BerryJun 20, 2023

@suldrew @carnage4life

That's an excellent and productive analogy. It leads to considering how we might automate detection of "fedispam", allowing us to use mostly-automated defenses as we do with email spam.

Show threadLőrinc Del MotteJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life The FOSS crowd has always seen themselves as rebels, sometimes to the point of self-harming absurdity.
Show threadNatik GadzhiJun 20, 2023

@carnage4life open for the sake of open is not the point. Safety and inclusivity is the point.

Meta has a track record of shitty moderation, so why would communities built specifically to be a safe harbor for marginalized folks federate with them? How is that dumb?

Show threadMarcinW 🖥️🚀Jun 20, 2023

@natik @carnage4life Mastodon has a track record of shitty moderation, so is it going to ban itself?

Mastodon already caused mass exodus after marginalized folks were subjected to an endless racist attacks, even on instances like my own, yet almost noone defederated off it.

Step down that high horse.

Show threadNatik GadzhiJun 20, 2023

@MarcinW @carnage4life perhaps you shouldn’t generalize to all instances then? Mine is much smaller, and also has a history of drama.

My point, though, is that any instance can be open, within its code of conduct, and can build out its own federation and moderation principles. A lot of instances will learn the hard way that moderation is hard. That doesn’t make attempting to do so stupid.

Show threadMarcinW 🖥️🚀Jun 20, 2023
@natik @carnage4life a number of clients can block entire instances no problem (e.g. Tusky). Why not leave it to the users, rather than blindly deciding to block what likely will become an equivalent of Gmail in fediverse? And all while not blocking mastodon.social, which is the closest thing right now and is already known to have racists and alike (rather than presumed, like they assume it to be on Meta's instance before it opened).
Hypocrisy much?
Show threadTom EastmanJun 20, 2023

@carnage4life

On the other hand, don't you think it's okay to assume bad faith if 100% of past actions have been in bad faith?

Show threadTomasz GalkowskiJun 20, 2023
@tveastman @carnage4life I dislike Meta, but it's hardly 100%. Their approach to open-source (with some weird licensing dramas) was, I think, regarded positively by the community. React, Relay, Jest - many open-source tools came from Meta or are Facebook-sponsored.
Show threadTom EastmanJun 20, 2023

@carnage4life

This argument only makes sense if you completely ignore everything you know about Meta's past actions, and strategy, and just assume a gold-fish like mentality that they *must* be on the level.

Show threadserklarvelJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life the big issue for me is moderation. How much resources Meta will put in weeding out bad people on Threads? Vulnerable communities are rightly concerned about harassment coming from a lightly moderated instance/plataform.
Show threadMarcinW 🖥️🚀Jun 20, 2023
@serklarvel @carnage4life I think it's safe to assume it will be more than average Mastodon instance, as they have both: money and legal obligation to moderate content, none of which your typical Mastodon instance got.
Show threadSmolcasmJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life The other benefit of being decentralized is that instances can make that choice and the system will still work. If a server doesn’t want to connect to another for any reason - and I’d say that this is a good reason - it’s wonderful, intended even, that they don’t have to.
Show threadsayrerJun 20, 2023

@carnage4life @gruber real conversation that happened:

A: “remember when we asked them to group threads?”
B: “yes …ugh”
A: “they just drew a line between circles, lol”

I guess Facebook copied that part, but at least they saw the hazard in putting numbers next to the little icons.

Show threadonnobJun 20, 2023

@carnage4life I am really curious if Meta will split its users into (self created) groups. That have their own rules and moderation. Otherwise it is too easy to block all of it at once.

Then again, almost every feature Meta has copied into its product has been implemented poorly, so their federated product will probably suck as well. But it may serve as a major gateway to the fediverse for tons of people, so that is positive.

Show threadl'empathie mécaniqueJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life It doesn’t matter. It is technically unfeasible to merge 2b-user network into 10m-user network without melting their servers.
Show threadTomasz GalkowskiJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life It's a dumb gatekeeper "us vs them" thing.
Show threadskuaJun 20, 2023

@carnage4life
Facebook / Meta is associated with genocide, torture and murder.

Shunning them seems pretty fitting.

Show threadarceuthobiumJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life if Meta were an individual with the same history I don’t think anyone would question the propriety of a preemptive block.
Show threadDani B.  Jun 20, 2023
@carnage4life if my instance did this I’d be migrating to a different one really quickly
Show threadlgtmJun 20, 2023
@Dani @carnage4life pretty much. If my friends, notable people I want follow are on Fb’s platform, I’m okay as long as I can follow them from here. But if you block them I’d definitely move to a place where I can connect with them, either another instance or their platform itself
Show threadhikewithrichardJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life Facebook spoke about the Social Graph and was called a silo for over a decade before the fediverse decided not to play nicely. Facebook has been a silo for over a decade, sucking in information, trapping people, and never apologising when they were caught being immoral. Facebook and Meta spread fascism in Europe and the US.
Show threadlgtmJun 20, 2023

@carnage4life @johnmu which option do people want:

1. Most people you want to follow or know are on a platform that you can access via your current platform.
2. Or they are on a platform that you cannot access, so you are forced to create an account there.

Where do you think most people that are well intentioned, not trolls want to go?

Show threadJeff AtwoodJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life I think it should be allowed but generally discouraged. Turn on, tune in, drop out.
Show threadMerle, Queen of Crime, Prince of BirdsJun 20, 2023
@carnage4life
It's not weird to want Facebook burned to the ground.
Show threadTimo ZimmermannJun 21, 2023
@carnage4life @_Jordan I fail to see the point of whole de-federation movement - we are talking about public instances. It’s not like FB cannot afford a few engineers to write a scraper based on an protocol or public API…
Show threadChris HansonJun 21, 2023
@carnage4life It’s kind of crazy, the modern reincarnation of the “I block any email/news originating from an AOL account” people.
Show threadJohn LeachJun 26, 2023
@carnage4life Gruber asks all those "why" questions and makes no attempt to answer them, despite there being lots of discussion going on (some of which he actually links to but doesn't acknowledge). Instead he essentially blames it on people relishing keeping Mastodon small. Not a serious commentary.