catshit_dogfart

I think Voyager is underrated

https://startrek.website/post/288

I think Voyager is underrated - Star Trek: Website

Often the subject of disagreement, Voyager is talked about poorly by some and praised by others. Seeing plenty of posts about it here. Well ya know - I think Voyager is underrated. That show took risks. They ran some stories that were just risky in terms of writing and production - sometimes it was a hit, sometimes a stinker. That’s why it has some amazing episodes and some really really stupid ones, because they were willing to take a chance on something uncertain. And I respect that, too many shows these days feel like the same recycled crap because television has become so risk-averse and they’re not willing to take a chance on something that might turn out dumb. So we got ones like the infamous warp 10 episode, and those are remembered as cases where the show got really dumb. But as an example, Seven of Nine could’ve completely bombed that show. Yes it looked like they were bringing on a bimbo for sex appeal, and they absolutely could’ve went that route with her. Fans might’ve hated the change no matter what. I mean, that’s a big deal, losing a main character and adding a new one - shows don’t always survive that.   Also there are things I notice from a production standpoint. From reading about the making of TNG, one thing I remember is them talking about never wanting to damage the costumes or get them dirty, or damage the set. That increases their production costs, cheaper to just not do that. But Voyager does this all the time. Uniforms are always getting burned and torn, Neelix spills things on his shirt, the bridge is shown being blown up or completely transformed. All the times they have smoke inside there, there’s something with water, parts are broken off - that’s something they had to clean up for the next episode. If they show burn marks on the captain’s chair, that means they’ll have to be cleaned or the whole prop replaced, at the risk of it not being identical or impossible to fix.   So the point is - respect for taking those risks. Didn’t always land, but plenty of them did.

Jun 12, 2023 at 5:31pmWeb
Show threadKIM_JONG_JUICEBOXJun 12, 2023

What are episodes people think are dumb?

I think the last seasons the writers really had some fun and the actors must have loved those.

Show threadcatshit_dogfartJun 12, 2023

Let's see, I don't remember episode titles but from memory:

  • The one where Harry Kim is having visions of a planet full of hot desperate women who want him for a mate

  • The one where they're on a prison colony and Chakotay has to fight The Rock. And this was before Dwayne Johnson's film career really took off.

  • The one where they go Warp 10 and devolve into lizard creatures. The lizard versions of Tom Paris and Janeway have lizard babies.

  • The one where Janeway falls in love with a holodeck character

  • The one where Kes comes back and she's evil

It's a real mixed bag. Sometimes you swing and you miss, and I respect them for even giving these stories a chance. Also I rather like Tuvix.

Show threadz500Jun 13, 2023
With Threshold I always was mildly impressed with how they made a point that evolution doesn't necessarily mean that a species will become super advanced somehow. That they evolved "in-place" instead of over generations is still a pretty bonkers misunderstanding of evolution that they always fall for, but I guess watching them turn into lizards over the next several decades probably wouldn't make the best TV lol
Show threadxontinuityJun 14, 2023
I agree. Honestly Threshold was a decent episode up until that ending. But the ending.... was just too much.
Show threadspock0001Jun 13, 2023
Probably an unpopular opinion but I quite liked season 1 of voyager with the kazon. Had a bit of an exotic wild west feel.
Show threadOpticalDataJun 13, 2023
It always amuses me that Seasons 1&2 had the most serialisation, but are often the least liked by the same people that complain the show wasn't serialised enough
Show threadCorganaJun 14, 2023
I really like the "vibe" of seasons 1&2. The writing and characters were still finding their footing, but I loved the feeling of wild exploration and risk-taking. Very TOS.
Show threadGiantBasilJun 13, 2023

I do agree with you, had no idea people disliked Voyager whe. I first watched it, and I overall enjoyed it very much. Yeah, the show has a bunch of out there episodes, but they tried new things and all great star trek shows have their good share of wacky episodes.

It's not even like it doesn't have good criticism points, Kes character was very mishandled and her relationship with Neelix was terrible, he becomes a 1000% more likable once she's gone, and Chakotay whole botched native American heritage disaster... (Which granted, they tried, they just sucked at finding a specialist)

And Tuvix is one of the topics that guarantees a philosophical discussion in any star trek group I'm in without fail. I pretty firmly hate Tuvix, but that's power.

Show threadavatarJun 13, 2023

I liked Kes better than Neelix, and also liked Seven of Nine.

I don't know where they possibly could have gone with Chakotay's character after the initial Maqui subplots.

Show threadGiantBasilJun 13, 2023

Honestly, same. Kes is likable from the get go, she just unfortunately treated as a prop most of the time instead of a character, specially for Neelix. I loved Seven, she became one of my favourites in Voyager.

About Chakotay, I don't know where they could have gone either, he was one of my favourites at first because of the character's potential and he looked hella cool. I don't dislike him, but he's bland, he's honorable I guess.

Show threadRoyalEngineeringJun 15, 2023
Hacoochie moya.
Show threadRoyalEngineeringJun 14, 2023
Tuvix is definitely a stinker. I love this video reviewing it: https://youtu.be/wVY63nx74_U
Show threaddaqJun 13, 2023
As I read though your post, I realized there's similarities to the Star Wars Prequels. They were hated at the time probably for the same reasons you mentioned, it was different, new things were added that the older and louder fans didn't like, but as time went on, those people quit complaining so much and people realized there was a lot to enjoy... I guess some things just need time.
Show threadOpticalDataJun 13, 2023

Interestingly it was almost an opposite phenomenon, Voyager was widely liked at the time but became less popular as serialised TV shows took off.

It's now coming back again as people are getting a bit burned out by everything having to have a season long plot line

Show threadLeer10Jun 17, 2023
I think that's what I really liked about DS9 and what happened in Enterprise that I wish could've happened with Voyager: front loaded with unserialized episodes but then the final seasons having some real stakes, strong character growth, and a big story to bring the series to a close.
Show threadcrowebearJun 14, 2023
I'm watching through it now for the first time (I already worked through TNG and DS9). I'm liking it a lot more than I expected, given what I'd heard about it. I really like the premise, and Janeway is a badass. Plus even the characters that others don't seem to like as much, I enjoy. I'm about halfway through season 4 and I have noticed a drastic increase in quality of the episodes too, lots of cool stuff going on, and Seven is awesome. I started calling Janeway Insaneway in my head after a couple of stunts she's done.
Show threadshirroJun 14, 2023
I liked Voyager a lot the first few times. We used to binge it on VHS box sets. There are good and bad episodes like any series. The cast generally do well with what they are given and the design and production quality of the show for its time is excellent. Some of the characters get less development than they could have and the technobabble is often overdone but the show was unfairly treated by a lot of the star trek fandom then and now.
Show threadchasmsJun 14, 2023
I grew up with Voyager and it holds a special place in my heart. I think it was a show of high highs and low lows, compared to other Treks. I wish they had the bravery to serialize it the way DS9 was.
Show threadshannonkayJun 14, 2023
I love Voyager!
Show threadSherri W (SyntaxSeed)Jun 14, 2023

@catshit_dogfart Voyager was my main Trek when I was younger and will always be my favourite. Janeway was awesome, and it's location in the Delta quadrant, far from Starfleet, made for some unique story opportunities.

When Seven was introduced, I was already bitter about the move Sliders made to remove a beloved character and bring on a hot woman, so I was really upset that Voyager did the same. But grew to love the character over time.

Voyager was fantastic & made me a Trek fan.

#StarTrek

Show threadGoatTnderJun 14, 2023

I'm still really sad that Kes was written off. Got no problem with Seven, but Kes was a good character on her own.

But, Neelix was pretty crap until Kes was removed from the show. Without her to be constantly jealous of, Neelix finally started to be useful and interesting.

Show threadR0cket_M00seJun 14, 2023
I agree 100%, his spat with Tom was annoying, I liked him better once she was out of the picture.
Show threadShut_up_WesleyJun 16, 2023
I think the character of Kes was very poorly written. It limited the acting range of Jennifer Lien, which is only really given a chance to shine in the episode Warlord.
Show threadElena.Jun 14, 2023
@[email protected] I wholeheartedly agree! I love that show.
Show threadMatthewJun 14, 2023
@[email protected] Yeah Voyager was brilliant.

To be honest, I did not have that opinion when I first watched it, though. I think some of the negatives you mentioned maybe grated on me a little, and I was watching it at a time when I was struggling with some life issues so probably focused more on those negatives.

But rewatching it a couple of years ago - yeah it's great.

The whole 7 of 9 storyline is one of the best from any Star Trek, easily one of the best characters in the whole universe, comparable with Data for complexity and interest for me.
Show threadJesokoJun 14, 2023

I love Voyager. It’s one of my go to’s to watch, and when asked, I will always say Janeway is my captain.

But I’m also a Star Trek: Enterprise apologist, so i might be easily pleased.

Show threadRoyalEngineeringJun 14, 2023
YES! Janeway is a great captain that often doesn’t get credit.
Show threadinfinitevalenceJun 16, 2023

Janeway is also my Captain.

Enterprise was fine just not great and not really canon but better than the crap JJ Abrams made.

Show threadastromdJun 14, 2023
I really enjoyed Voyager and still watch episodes regularly. For me it was the idea of being so far from the "known universe" and what that would be like.
Show threadAllonzeeLVJun 14, 2023

I totally agree. Voyager is what got me really into Trek. It really set the tone that it's easy/easier to live by the high minded, aspirational values of the federation when resources are abundant to infinite, but Voyager showed us that those values just as important if not moreso in the darkness.

And let's be honest, Sisko didn't really even seem to subscribe to those values, so DS9 wasn't similar in that regard.

Show threadSonNeedGymJun 14, 2023
Voyager gets unnecessarily picked on. It's a little weak in the first few seasons, but even those have some standout eps. When Seven shows up, it gets even better.
Show threadvoidJun 15, 2023
I think all of the 90s and 00s era series hit their stride in season 4.
Show threadNauraJun 14, 2023

I love voyager the most because the crew became a family.

When it comes to family we tend to make different decisions when it’s about making sure they are safe and cared for. imo that’s what made capt janeway different from picard or sisko. People tend to push her as being irrational but being a parent, that happens. I think that’s why i loved picard, and i love season 3 more than any episode of TNG.

And obviously the situation they were in was completely different. I totally agree with you about the budget. It is all about the money in the end for all things. They had a planet of the week sound stage to save money. Makes sense. Even the new shows have a budget.

Show threadKwakigraJun 14, 2023
I agree with this, and to put it politely Voyager is far from my favorite Trek show. I understand that the main reason for this is that I didn't click with the main cast as so many who love Voyager do, and that is 100% subjective. Even though I like fewer episodes than I dislike which I've seen, the appeal for someone whose taste is different than mine is obvious. Every trek show has oddness or persistent issues but these are typically forgivable because of the other strengths of the show. That the strengths of this show didn't click with me doesn't mean it's nothing more than its bad parts. All this being said I love the character of Janeway and Kate Mulgrew's performance as the character. I also find it amusing the extremely high number of times the character has been performed committing atrocities even though in most ;) instances it wasn't the real prime Janeway.
Show threadR0cket_M00seJun 14, 2023

Voyager was rerunning on Spike TV right around the time I was getting into highschool and it really got me into trek. I know DS9 purists and TNG era fans think it sub par, but I really enjoyed the show having serialized mini plots alongside the season long arcs of finding ways to get home faster. Not to mention the show spanning plot of returning from the Delta quadrant in general keeping them in the same direction with the series. It felt like you got the continuity of DS9 with the TNG era "alien of the week" style thrown in.

Plus when I was a kid I played the absolute shit out of Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force and damn that one is still fun to this day.

Show threadTheLazurusJun 16, 2023
I'm a Voyager fan, I grew up watching reruns on Spike in the mid 00s. Does it have issues? Absolutely. Is it still probably my second favorite Trek ever? Yeah, right after DS9.
Show threadnotsciiJun 17, 2023
Voyager got me into star trek. Whilst it's not my go-to to rewatch, I find myself thinking about it more often than any other show. The "cut off from rest of human civilization" is just too good.