What's everyone's thoughts on split or tented keyboards?
What's everyone's thoughts on split or tented keyboards?
Not much, probably a minor case of it if so. Trying to get ahead of it at least but also just like the thought of moving towards a more ergonomic setup
Thanks for the advice!
@improbablynotarobot I own several split keyboards at this point and very much prefer them. I have RSI and it's much more comfortable to type and helps keep my wrists at a comfortable angle.
As for tenting I haven't experimented with it much, but I know that a lot of people swear by it.
@improbablynotarobot I do! My main keyboard is an Ergodox, and I make heavy use of the extra thumb keys. Having enter/del/backspace on my thumbs alone is really nice, and I also keep a layer toggle next to them. Commonly used keys, like my navigation cluster and a numpad stay close to the home row on two different layers.
The one thing I don't make much use of is symbols on layers, which takes a bit more getting used to than I've put time in for. Instead I just use the dedicated number row.
I have bi-lateral carpaltunnel (Mild left, moderate right) and have found it greatly managed in my life as a heavy computer user for work and pleasure by changing my keyboard to the Kinesis Advantage 2. This is an expensive keyboard that definitely isn't in a lot of people's range but thankfully work was able to get it for me to prevent further RSI.
I swear by this damn keyboard though. The split and boxy design perfectly aligns to my shoulder width, and my arms out in front of me rest every comfortably on the pads below each hand-well. The keys are ortholinear meaning instead of the usual QWERTY keyboards having a slight staggering of the keys (and thus, at least for me, I have a lot of micro-adjusting of my hands and wrist as I'm tying) the keys being aligned straight up and down where my fingers are resting means all I have to do is flex my fingers foward and back to hit the proper key. Having the very often used keys on my thumbs (backspace/delete/enter/control/alt/windows+CMD key) mean no more stretching out my pinky to push it.
Far more affordable options include the Iris split keyboards that are DIY in a kit (you provide your own key switches), which I've had my eye on for a long while but could never seem to tear myself away from the advantage 2. Since I've been issued a new laptop with work that is a lot thinner and easier to work out of a coffeeshop or drop-in desk somewhere with, I might start revisiting that conversation.
For completeness sake - I use a logitec Ergo M575 trackball mouse. I grew up laughing at a family member who worked in tech for using this kind of mouse back when it was that ball of clay and an optical sensor. I'm not laughing anymore now that I have to use it so my hands don't hurt from work at by the end of the day 😭
I've been usung a Moonlander for a couple of months after a friend at work lent me his Ergodox EZ. The learning curve for someone who'd been trying freestyle for 30 years was tough, but I definitely prefer it now I'm accustomed.
Most ergo keyboard users are somewhat zealous, so if you know someone who uses one, they may be happy to lend you one on a temp basis.
I’ve got a Moonlander I’ve been using on and off for a while now, it’s hard to fully commit when I’m so comfortable typing on a 60% or 65%.
Agreed about people lending, I’ve let coworkers and friends borrow keyboards and even let some friends keep them because I have too many.
My first split was a Moonlander which I still have and use, and I love it. Then I got a Rollow and a Waterfowl (both on group buys) and I absolutely adore them.
It does take some reprogramming the muscle memory to get used to a split ortho, but it's been worth it. I can type longer without my wrists hurting, and the freedom in key customisation is awesome.
Using a split lets me keep my hands further apart, so my shoulders are back in a more natural position. That has helped quite a bit with upper back pain.
I tent the Moonlander, but not my other two. Tenting is really comfortable, but I'd recommend starting flat and increasing angle gradually since the split ortho is already a lot to get used to.
Switching to a split is also a good time to switch to another layout like colemak if you have any interest. Your fingers will be slightly confused anyway. Doing that helped me keep my QWERTY muscle memory for normal keyboards.
I also have an Iris! I haven’t tented mine and am trying to decide if I want to.
I’ve found it works fine for games, I usually just shove the right side of my keyboard out of the way for more mouse space, and just have a few extra mouse buttons to make up for not having the right side of the keyboard.
I set mine up with rotary encoders that give me up/down/left/right, so I don't have to take my hands off my keyboard to move around within an open file.
I haven't tented mine either, but have tossed around the idea a little bit.
I have an Ergodox EZ that I use off and on. I used to use it regularly, as I mainly bought it because I was experiencing some shoulder pain.
When you bring your hands/wrists together to type on a regular keyboard, your shoulders tend to roll inward a little bit. Using the Ergodox or any split keyboard lets you open up your chest and shoulders to a more proper alignment and is much more comfortable in my opinion.
It only took me a couple days or so before I was typing at 80%+ of my normal speed on the split and ortho layout.
I haven’t used that keyboard regularly in a while since I wound up discovering that my shoulder pain was caused by my mattress (and just exacerbated by my regular keyboard). I had built out a layout that worked pretty well for me on the Ergodox, but then for the times I would travel for work I would get thrown off switching back to the normal layout of the laptop keyboard.
I was the IT Director for a company that had a lot of data entry people. I had noticed that the keyboards that they were using were mostly plane jane, mismatched, membrane keyboards. After a bit of back and forth with purchasing I convinced the company to purchase a ton of mechanical (cherry reds), split ergonomic keyboards.
Within a month RSI reports were down by 95% and after 2 months were essentially nonexistent. I also noticed that people had stopped wearing wrist braces as well. I paired this with good, well shaped mice that would hopefully lead to less fatigue with repetitive motion.
My sample size is tiny, but there are 30 some odd people who if asked, would back me up on this. So while not thoroughly scientifically proven, I am willing to say that ergonomic keyboards do make a big difference. I think mechanical makes a pretty big difference too. Cherry reds activate with very little pressure and, imo, make typing long documents or notes much less annoying/stressful/painful/
I built a Lily58 keyboard a couple years ago, and I love it. Coincidentally enough, I posted about it today on another thread about mechanical keyboards on yet another server.
But I love how it turned out. It’s super comfy, and I actually enjoy that I can put that keyboard around another keyboard I use for my ipad. So during the day while working I can still use my ipad easily. Super nice.
Here’s a link to the image I posted with that thread:
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9184e3ce-60e3-443c-921b-8302d2a46bfb.jpeg
I had some wrist issues a couple of years ago and that pushed me to go to the split keyboard route. I really love this keyboard. I’m someone who actually quite likes the low profile, laptop style keys, so I didn’t know if I’d enjoy this set up. But I quickly grew to love it. Bright lights and flashing stuff isn’t really my thing, so I’m really glad I was able to find these keycaps that’s just look nice and clean. Underneath are the most silent cherry reds I could find (I’m also not a big fan out loud keyboards. Blasphemy, I know! 😃). And for my biggest nerd cred: I’m so glad I can save my precious Dvorak layout straight to the keyboard. No longer have to deal with Windows’ layout switching.
I think they're very good if you use your computer for a whole lot of typing and nothing else. Using a DVORAK keyboard instead of a QWERTY one will also improve your WPM and QoL when typing, once you're used to it. If you're a writer or a programmer, it's worth considering.
But much like DVORAK vs QWERTY, any non-typing tasks become affected. It's awkward playing PC games, for example, when some of your shortcuts for inventory/map are far enough from your kb hand to need your mouse hand. You also don't have much range to choose from, so may have to make compromises on things like keypress feedback, simultaneous presses, unit price, etc.
I learned to touch-type on a tented keyboard with a mild split. When I replaced it, I got a 'Wave' keyboard - not split, but slightly tented, and had depressions and curves to match the wrist and the finger lengths at rest on the home row. Both of them were membrane keyboards (full-depth keypress). Despite being a membrane keyboard, the Wave was still as chunky and loud as most membrane keyboards.
But now, I'm just using a generic full-length mechanical keyboard (partial keypress) with relatively quiet switches, one chosen as a good compromise between gaming (sensitivity) and typing (feedback). I've changed my resting position a little so that my wrists are still in an A shape (not an H shape), but I'm finding the keys much more comfortable.
The old ergonomic keyboards didn't give much choice and in hindsight the feedback on the keys on the Wave felt AWFUL compared to what I use now. A split/tent mechanical keyboard might be different, but then price becomes a consideration. Swapping to a mechanical keyboard made the biggest difference to my comfort typing. (And don't let tall/loud keys fool you - not every chunky keyboard is mechanical.)
While I do not use tenting or physically split keyboards, I have been using ergonomic split keyboards for ~16 years. Not sure if that exactly fits the category you are looking at.
The specific keyboards have been the Microsoft natural ergonomic keyboard 4000, Microsoft Sculpt, and Logitech ERGO K860. I've been gaming on the PC since the early 90s and have been in IT and software development for ~26 years.
I have had no issues with carpal tunnel or RSI. While I obviously cannot say it was 100% due to the split keyboard design I believe it has likely helped to keep those issues at bay. Once you are used to a split keyboard design you can feel the pitch and stress on your wrists when using a standard keyboard. I have also always used the riser that rises the wrist end of the keyboard so you fingers are sort of "falling" down toward the keys.
I used that Microsoft 4000 keyboard for years, cleaned out the membrane on it 2 or 3 times before I had to replace the entire keyboard. Then was left hunting for something to replace it; I tried a lot of keyboards. In the end I've settled on the Logitech K860.
I have a pretty similar bio except I'm not into gaming. I will say the feeling of going to a non-split keyboard is immediate now. I'm at a phase in my career where I'm in meetings all day so I don't mind it was much when it happens but a few years ago I'd be having wrist pain after a couple of hours of working on a standard keyboard.
I tried the sculpt as well but found it was having issues with key repeat or just losing connectivity so I went back to a wired keyboard (MS Natural).
Any thoughts on why the Logitech is better or were you just ready for a change?
I had the exact same issue with the Microsoft Sculpt, it would disconnect much too often. There is a setting in Windows that sort of helped it but not fully. I also missed the standard cursor keys placement (home/end/pg) and the number pad as I will often punch in some numbers or even hit the enter key over there just to mix it up a bit.
The Logitech is a full width/key keyboard so cursor manipulation muscle memory is great, that was something I was still getting used to on the Sculpt. The Logitech does not disconnect as much as the Sculpt and there are no repeat key presses, it does however still disconnect at times and it is most obvious when trying to copy or paste. Overall the Logitech is the board I like best since the natural 4000.
If there was pie in the sky I'd like a full key, ergonomic split, wired, and hot swap keys so I can just fix any key that has an issue in the future. I searched high and low for that combination and haven't found one that checks all the boxes. There are split mechanical keyboards but they either not hot swap, are short the cursor keys, have shuffled the cursor keys, or dropped the number pad. There is one mechanical keyboard that comes extremely close but the keys are not hot swap.
I’ve built several. They are worth every penny. Not only reduced pain in the hands, wrist, and forearms. Also in my shoulders. I’m a fairly wide human and split tented allows you to place the separate parts at a more natural distance for shoulder/arm width.
My mother eve ended up stealing my last build. She’s not complained since and travels with it for work.
As a builder, would you say there's a somewhat budget pre-built option that's decent that lazy and curious people like me can look at?
I'm not having a lot of trouble with my body with the regular keyboards, but they do force.me into specific positions when I have to do actual work, because I need both sides of it rather than just the gaming one when I play.
I've been using a Microsoft natural keyboard since 1998. I switched over to the Elite when they came out and I have several spares stockpiled. They helped a lot with the wrist comfort and honestly they improved by typing by enforcing which fingers press which keys.
I have a hard time using a straight keyboard, not because I can't adapt but because they're just plain uncomfortable. So when a thing hurts when you do it then you stop doing it. You'll see.
I printed out and mostly built a Dactyl keyboard but never got around to finishing it because work is super picky about what USB devices can be hooked up to our machines and QMK firmware will absolutely look like a mouse jiggler to their security scanning software. I had to unplug a frickin' volume knob because it was alerting every day as a security risk or something.
I've used a variety of split keyboards for a good number of years now, and it has made an enormous difference to the hand pain that was just starting before I switched, and also to my posture. I tried tenting too, but never really got comfy with that. I found that tenting helped me more when using higher profile split boards (i.e. with MX switches), but I preferred not tenting with low profile (Choc) switches. It's worth getting a board with the potential to tent though, as it is a very individual thing and you never know what will work best for you.
For reference, I am not a gamer, and try to avoid using the mouse as much as possible.
I've used the ergodox ez for a couple of years, great device. Doing more with thumb is surprisingly convenient.
The small poles didn't do a lot of tenting. I came from yogitype (vertical keyboard), would have liked more.
A few months ago i switched to kinesis 360. Love the tenting of that, the keys are also a pleasure to type on.
Biggest downside is that my laptop keyboard is now even more horrible.
I suggest the Moonlander by ZSA. It checks all the boxes for me:
I've been happily using the Moonlander for over a year and can't see myself going back to a normal keyboard.
I started off getting a Dygma Raise, as this is a staggered layout like a standard keyboard and you could even slot it together or separate it and use as a split.
I recently put together a Lily58 which is a columnar layout, which took a few days to get used to but I have been enjoying using it.