Mastodawn

Sharon Mearns Wagner Jun 6, 2023

"Basically, Twitter’s own lawyers are admitting in a court filing that the guy who owns their company is spewing utter nonsense about what the Twitter Files revealed. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything quite like this."

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/06/05/twitter-admits-in-court-filing-elon-musk-is-simply-wrong-about-government-interference-at-twitter/

As usual, @mmasnick is doing the reporting that Big Journalism can't be bothered to do in a timely way. In this case, he explains what a legal document says.

Twitter Admits in Court Filing: Elon Musk Is Simply Wrong About Government Interference At Twitter

It is amazing the degree to which some people will engage in confirmation bias and believe absolute nonsense, even as the facts show the opposite is true. Over the past few months, we’ve gone throu…

Techdirt

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@dangillmor @mmasnick

Musk is a disgusting person. But he's right about one thing: Twitter conspired with the US government to influence what's on Twitter.

This is absolutely horrifying.

Mike Masnick ✅Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal um. no. there is zero evidence to support that. @dangillmor

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@mmasnick @dangillmor

American social media is infiltrated with US spies. here is just one example: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11562433/Facebook-riddled-ex-CIA-agents-ex-FBI-agents-work-Twitter.html

I don't know about you, but I prefer my social media to be free of CIA-thugs.

The only good thing about Musk is that he's taking a sledgehammer approach to American spies. It's fun to watch.

Facebook is riddled with ex-CIA agents while many ex-FBI agents work at Twitter

Former CIA agents made up some of the top ranks in almost every politically sensitive department at Meta, as former FBI agents migrated over to Twitter in droves before the 2020 election.

Daily Mail

Dan Gillmor Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal I would not cite the Daily Mail as evidence of anything. @mmasnick

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@dangillmor
@mmasnick

There are names in the article that you can look up in LinkedIn. There are ex-CIA/FBI employees employed by social media companies.

dragonfrog Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick yes, just as the are ex-Air Canada employees working for major universities. It doesn't mean the airline industry has "infiltrated" academia, it means the airline industry has*lost those employees*. That's how labour force mobility works.

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

Air Canada is not a murderous organization engaged in human rights abuses.

dragonfrog Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

That is true but also irrelevant to the point I am making: Ex-employees are not employees. Whether the former employer was morally good, neutral, or outright evil, it is *former*.

An employer losing employees to another industry is not "infiltrating" that industry, it's just losing employees. My employer's protective services department (i.e. building security) hires many retired cops. That's not "infiltration" - a pension is different from a salary.

dragonfrog Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

Like, "we don't hire ex-spies" is potentially a valid HR practice, but it is a different thing from protection against infiltration by current spies. Current spies coming to infiltrate your industry aren't going to put their history with the espionage agency on their CV.

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

Nobody here is talking about clandestine infiltration.

Banks hire a lot of people from SEC because ex regulators are the best people to navigate financial regulation.

Likewise American social media companies have to comply with FISA courts and laws like the Cloud act. That is why Facebook, Twitter and Google hire ex spies to comply with those laws.

dragonfrog Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

I am gradually understanding what your objection is, and it seems to be a valid one (regardless of whether I share it)

It really didn't help that you opened with "Twitter conspired with the US government to influence what's on Twitter" - which is untrue - and then confusingly framed "social media companies hire people who are morally objectionable because they formerly worked for the CIA" as "social media companies are infiltrated by the CIA."

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

Ok, let me rephrase:
American social media companies have to operate within American law. American law requires these companies to share user data with intelligence agencies and also to police the content. One way this manifests itself is that American social media companies hire a lot of ex-spies to implement all of these regulations.

Moral of the story: avoid American social media.

i.grok Jun 6, 2023

no one is talking about clandestine infiltration except @newsorpigal, that is. You opened with "conspired together because former spies" and then shifted your claim as it faced resistance. I'd chalk that up to "misspoke" except now you're doubling down/gaslighting

@dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@igrok @dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

You might be surprised to find out that there is a secret court that decides these things.

If this isn't conspiring, I don't know what is.

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

Would you hire someone that has Taliban on their resume? I would not. It's the same with CIA.

dragonfrog Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

My point isn't that hiring ex-CIA employees is a good thing.

It is only that objecting to hiring ex-CIA employees is valid, but framing that objection as being "infiltrated with US spies" only confuses the point and gets in the way of making that actual objection.

As to whether I'd hire an ex-Taliban - it depends what they did, and what the job is. One thing that surely doesn't help in weakening the Taliban is if it's impossible to leave it.

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

This is why social media companies are hiring ex-spies: https://mastodon.social/@newsorpigal/110498088390947558

sorrykb Jun 7, 2023

@newsorpigal @dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick Buddy, have you ever flown Air Canada.
…
But seriously, if the CIA wanted to implant spies in social media networks, don’t you think they’d do a better job concealing it?

newsorpigal Jun 7, 2023

@sorrykb @dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

https://mastodon.social/@newsorpigal/110498088390947558

Jeramee Jun 7, 2023

@dangillmor @newsorpigal @mmasnick

The Daily Mail is less credible than Fox, which just paid out a $1.6 BILLION settlement for lying, knowing they were lying, and continuing to lie.

Anyone citing this as a source loses credibility.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

Daily Mail - Bias and Credibility

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing of credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very

Media Bias/Fact Check

Mike Masnick ✅Jun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal that is a massive leap from what you said, and you're citing an infamously silly tabloid. You're spreading utter fucking nonsense and you should stop. @dangillmor

newsorpigal Jun 6, 2023

@mmasnick
@dangillmor

What nonsense? That companies in the US are forced to comply with the FISA courts and other similar legislation? And that they are hiring ex-intelligence people to comply?

This is nothing different than Goldman Sachs hiring ex SEC regulators.

Avoiding American social media and cloud companies is a must for privacy.

Mike Masnick ✅Jun 7, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor you're mixing and matching lots of different stuff and it shows you have NO CLUE what you're talking about.

The FISC has NOTHING to do with content moderation decisions.

You started out with a falsehood. You should educate your ignorant self.

xs4me2 Jun 6, 2023

@dangillmor @mmasnick

Well, seems it must be true then…

And its not that he is wrong, he is simply lying and manipulating…

Peter Cohen Jun 6, 2023

@dangillmor @mmasnick My takeaway here is that Twitter's lawyers are more competent than the management.

Marco L. Gato Jun 6, 2023

@dangillmor @mmasnick

This is straight up comedy gold.