Dan GillmorJun 6, 2023

"Basically, Twitter’s own lawyers are admitting in a court filing that the guy who owns their company is spewing utter nonsense about what the Twitter Files revealed. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything quite like this."

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/06/05/twitter-admits-in-court-filing-elon-musk-is-simply-wrong-about-government-interference-at-twitter/

As usual, @mmasnick is doing the reporting that Big Journalism can't be bothered to do in a timely way. In this case, he explains what a legal document says.

Twitter Admits in Court Filing: Elon Musk Is Simply Wrong About Government Interference At Twitter

It is amazing the degree to which some people will engage in confirmation bias and believe absolute nonsense, even as the facts show the opposite is true. Over the past few months, we’ve gone throu…

Techdirt
Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@dangillmor @mmasnick

Musk is a disgusting person. But he's right about one thing: Twitter conspired with the US government to influence what's on Twitter.

This is absolutely horrifying.

Show threadMike Masnick ✅Jun 6, 2023
@newsorpigal um. no. there is zero evidence to support that. @dangillmor
Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@mmasnick @dangillmor

American social media is infiltrated with US spies. here is just one example: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11562433/Facebook-riddled-ex-CIA-agents-ex-FBI-agents-work-Twitter.html

I don't know about you, but I prefer my social media to be free of CIA-thugs.

The only good thing about Musk is that he's taking a sledgehammer approach to American spies. It's fun to watch.

Facebook is riddled with ex-CIA agents while many ex-FBI agents work at Twitter

Former CIA agents made up some of the top ranks in almost every politically sensitive department at Meta, as former FBI agents migrated over to Twitter in droves before the 2020 election.

Daily Mail
Show threadDan GillmorJun 6, 2023
@newsorpigal I would not cite the Daily Mail as evidence of anything. @mmasnick
Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@dangillmor
@mmasnick

There are names in the article that you can look up in LinkedIn. There are ex-CIA/FBI employees employed by social media companies.

Show threaddragonfrog
@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick yes, just as the are ex-Air Canada employees working for major universities. It doesn't mean the airline industry has "infiltrated" academia, it means the airline industry has*lost those employees*. That's how labour force mobility works.
Jun 6, 2023 at 1:44pmWeb
Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

Air Canada is not a murderous organization engaged in human rights abuses.

Show threaddragonfrogJun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

That is true but also irrelevant to the point I am making: Ex-employees are not employees. Whether the former employer was morally good, neutral, or outright evil, it is *former*.

An employer losing employees to another industry is not "infiltrating" that industry, it's just losing employees. My employer's protective services department (i.e. building security) hires many retired cops. That's not "infiltration" - a pension is different from a salary.

Show threaddragonfrogJun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

Like, "we don't hire ex-spies" is potentially a valid HR practice, but it is a different thing from protection against infiltration by current spies. Current spies coming to infiltrate your industry aren't going to put their history with the espionage agency on their CV.

Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

Nobody here is talking about clandestine infiltration.

Banks hire a lot of people from SEC because ex regulators are the best people to navigate financial regulation.

Likewise American social media companies have to comply with FISA courts and laws like the Cloud act. That is why Facebook, Twitter and Google hire ex spies to comply with those laws.

Show threaddragonfrogJun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

I am gradually understanding what your objection is, and it seems to be a valid one (regardless of whether I share it)

It really didn't help that you opened with "Twitter conspired with the US government to influence what's on Twitter" - which is untrue - and then confusingly framed "social media companies hire people who are morally objectionable because they formerly worked for the CIA" as "social media companies are infiltrated by the CIA."

Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

Ok, let me rephrase:
American social media companies have to operate within American law. American law requires these companies to share user data with intelligence agencies and also to police the content. One way this manifests itself is that American social media companies hire a lot of ex-spies to implement all of these regulations.

Moral of the story: avoid American social media.

Show threadi.grokJun 6, 2023

no one is talking about clandestine infiltration except @newsorpigal, that is. You opened with "conspired together because former spies" and then shifted your claim as it faced resistance. I'd chalk that up to "misspoke" except now you're doubling down/gaslighting

@dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@igrok @dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

You might be surprised to find out that there is a secret court that decides these things.

If this isn't conspiring, I don't know what is.

Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

Would you hire someone that has Taliban on their resume? I would not. It's the same with CIA.

Show threaddragonfrogJun 6, 2023

@newsorpigal @dangillmor @mmasnick

My point isn't that hiring ex-CIA employees is a good thing.

It is only that objecting to hiring ex-CIA employees is valid, but framing that objection as being "infiltrated with US spies" only confuses the point and gets in the way of making that actual objection.

As to whether I'd hire an ex-Taliban - it depends what they did, and what the job is. One thing that surely doesn't help in weakening the Taliban is if it's impossible to leave it.

Show threadnewsorpigalJun 6, 2023

@dragonfrog
@dangillmor @mmasnick

This is why social media companies are hiring ex-spies: https://mastodon.social/@newsorpigal/110498088390947558

Show threadsorrykbJun 7, 2023
@newsorpigal @dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick Buddy, have you ever flown Air Canada.
…
But seriously, if the CIA wanted to implant spies in social media networks, don’t you think they’d do a better job concealing it?
Show threadnewsorpigalJun 7, 2023

@sorrykb @dragonfrog @dangillmor @mmasnick

https://mastodon.social/@newsorpigal/110498088390947558