Mastodawn

The Conversation U.S.

Two Southerners serving in the U.S. Army in 1861 made different choices when the Civil War began.

Robert E. Lee has been looked on as a source of pride by White Southerners.

But perhaps, according to historian Christopher Einolf, a better source of pride today would be Maj. Gen. George H. Thomas – another Virginian, who honored his oath to defend the Constitution.

https://theconversation.com/us-army-maj-gen-george-h-thomas-journey-from-enslaver-to-union-officer-to-civil-rights-defender-205950

#History #BlackHistory #Histodons @histodons

US Army Maj. Gen. George H. Thomas' journey from enslaver to Union officer to civil rights defender

A Southerner, Maj. Gen. George H. Thomas was a racist enslaver before the Civil War. But he fought for the Union because he prioritized his oath to defend the Constitution over state interests.

The Conversation

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@TheConversationUS @histodons george thomas was a slave owner just like lee why not cancel him too

The Conversation U.S.Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @histodons Because, as the article points out, he actually changed his ways

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@TheConversationUS @histodons not clear if he did or not -- in fact he used slave labor during the civil war even, it would seem. from wikipedia:

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@TheConversationUS @histodons oops here is the wiki

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@TheConversationUS @histodons im not arguing to cancel george thomas. i am arguing against cancellation in general. as a historian, what is needed is more context and deeper understanding, less ideological reaction

Coach Pāṇini ®Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons This George Thomas? He would scare the hell out of Lost Causers, MAGA Republicans, and anyone near the Capitol on Jan 6th. And for that reason alone, I don’t cancel him.

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@paninid @TheConversationUS @histodons this is exactly why it is important to add more context ... i think there are also certain confederates who would have gladly come down hard on the seditious of 2021, but that's an ahistorical observation

Tequila0341 Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons The article you are responding contains numerous examples of Thomas' behavior during Reconstruction that indicates he protected black Americans from white terrorism in the South when they sought to vote and work.

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@tequila0341 @TheConversationUS @histodons sure, people change. war changes people. Thomas owned slaves, and then he didn't.

Tequila0341 Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons Not committing treason in defense of slavery goes a long way. Unlike Lee, Thomas honored his oath to his country and the Army and instead fought to preserve the Union and destroy slavery, even if it meant giving up the people his family had enslaved.

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@tequila0341 @TheConversationUS @histodons this kind of rhetoric is ultimately unhelpful. "treason" "oath" and even "country" need contextualizing here

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@tequila0341 @TheConversationUS @histodons you cant for example say that george thomas was against slavery because he stayed in the union army in 1861. not when slavery was abolished only in part in 1863 and wholly later than that.

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@tequila0341 @TheConversationUS @histodons and some of the most prominent voices for negro social equality were actually confederate soldiers: see eg G W Cabel (1844-1925).

I hope it is clear that the actual history cannot be reduced to such black-and-white rhetoric

Tequila0341 Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons Except most of the groups inflicting mass violence on black Americans in the post-CW South were made up of Confederate veterans, who were overwhelmingly determined to resist any attempt to emancipate or empower black Americans.

Tequila0341 Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons what about staying in the Union army post 1863 and post 1865, as well as fighting to exterminate the Confederate regime whose entire purpose was the preservation of slavery and the destruction of the Union?

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@tequila0341 @TheConversationUS @histodons it's anachronistic to say that George Thomas was fighting for abolition when he stayed in the army in 1861 -- my whole point is that things were more complicated than just "slavery or abolition" -- which wasnt even clear in 1863, let alone in 1861

Tequila0341 Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons it was extremely clear especially post 1863, and even more so post 1865.

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@[email protected] @TheConversationUS @histodons that's not when Thomas made the decision to stay in the Union army, though. It was not clear in 1861 that the Union was fighting for abolition

Tequila0341 Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons You may find it unhelpful. It is, however, accurate.

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@tequila0341 @TheConversationUS @histodons No, it isnt.

Tequila0341 Jun 7, 2023

@ekknappenberger @TheConversationUS @histodons it absolutely is.

𝔼k 𝓋ℴ𝓃 𝕂𝔫ä𝔭𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔟𝔢𝔯g Jun 7, 2023

@tequila0341 @TheConversationUS @histodons alright, this conversation is over, buster.