@DarkestKale imo morrowind really is the start of the current/modern elder scrolls world, like how fo3 was a fairly clean break from fo1/2

i love daggerfall but that is way more generic high fantasy and mechanically very different

@worthlessbums You're my expert on this, so I give you reign on this discussion.

But my point is: they *did* fuck with it, but have calcified.

Because that's what IP's do - they either wither off or they calcify over the money.

@DarkestKale i guess my overarching point is mechanically very little changed from morrowind to oblivion to skyrim. if you get An Elder Scrolls Game you are hit with all the big fantasy tropes and mechanics morrowind had

sure you can't leap across skyrim by cheesing alchemy like in mw, but the bones are still there

@DarkestKale whereas in fallout every installation is giving you different core mechanics but keeping the aesthetic/setting flavor of the older games

the only thing that's really stayed vaguely the same between 3->4 is vats, and 76 completely gutted that due to real time multiplayer reasons

@worthlessbums Mind you, some of that sounds like tech/UI stuff, and I'd like a chart showing the timeline of ES releases vs Fallout releases.

Cause MW and Oblivion were REAL close. Skyrim? Well, Skyrim's actually VERY old too.

@DarkestKale part of it is definitely tech reasons

if you're into fo4 modding you become Very Aware that this was built on top of the skyrim/creation engine xD

in terms of releases... bethesda releases games whenever they're damned well ready lol

years between entries in both franchises

@worthlessbums Also worth noting Fallout 3 is where the console shit comes in, which becomes a huge limitation.

ES suffered (IMHO) from having to do stuff to make consoles work.

Skyrim & Oblivion's UIs were garbage.

@DarkestKale yep no lies detected

carried all the way into skyrim and fo4 as well. skyrim's is notoriously shit on pc

@worthlessbums Oblivion got maybe... twelve hours of gametime out of me before I just said 'fuck this', tried a mod to make the invent not shit, and gave up.

Never, ever, went back to it.

Skyrim's was just as bad and didn't help my thoughts.

@worthlessbums Anyway, steering back:

You don't change the shit that's causing money to pour into your pockets, until money slows its descent into your pocket.

Then, typically, corps fuck it even more.

@DarkestKale i think a large part of the problem is the 40k illustrations are gorgeous, and they really nailed their <whatever scale> minis for space marines and such

but they didn't put in the legwork for scaling up for big models

they just look fucking weird

@DarkestKale i 100% know they can do better because i have seen the star wars "minis" lololol

and they are better

@worthlessbums Also:

Older minis are 'better', because they were lead.

I still remember when they went Lead -> White Metal (ie: mostly magnesium, I think?)

Seems like they predominantly only sell plastic minis now, which are... yeah.

(and the scale? The scale has crept SO BAD from what I've read, which also might figure into what you mean)

@DarkestKale honestly i think plastic is really good these days?

i was also surprised at the quality and detail on my fallout minis which are resin (i think???)

@DarkestKale yeah but if you can do it in plastic it's cheaper, can 3d print it, less heavy, etc

what is the advantage of metal? easier to strip paint? lasts longer if your dog uses it as a chew toy?

@worthlessbums Waaaaaaay the fuck back when (early-mid 90s), Metal was 'the good detailed shit', and Plastic was 'mass produce this shit'.

The difference in quality of cast was extremely obvious.

I have some old metal and plastic minis (unpainted) here somewhere.

It's basically: old plastic stuff? You never got little seals, skulls, rivets, etc. Metal ones you did.

@worthlessbums Whether they COULD do that level of detail and chose not to (moulds are expensive!) or whether they just couldn't do it, I can't tell you.

I can just tell you what I know/remember from the time.

@worthlessbums Hrm. Back on White Dwarf, just had a flip through Issue 486 (from sometime this year? March).

It had... one page, on how to paint bulkheads.

That's it. That's all their painting advice.

Fuck me, how the mighty have fallen.

@worthlessbums I think what's standing out to me, for White Dwarf is... a complete lack of the old B/W line art, which was their fucking trademark stuff.

There's none.

It looks just like any other modern art stuff (ie: WotC stuff)

@worthlessbums Hrm. Issue 102 has a six page section just on how to paint faces.

Interesting.

@DarkestKale i am not looking forward to painting faces

the eyes. the pupils

oh my god how lolol

@worthlessbums This actually says how to do eyes.

Do you want me to send you pics?

@worthlessbums 'With a light touch and a steady hand pupils can be added with the tip of a brush'

GOOD LUCK BUMS

@DarkestKale i am not even confident imma paint nora's vaultsuit properly so

let's burn that bridge when we get there

@worthlessbums So from what I can tell, paint on a resin model is a one-way process?

Like, you can't just leave 'em in turps overnight, can you?

@DarkestKale i dunno what a turp is

haven't seen anything about not being able to strip paint or paint in layers, if that's what you mean