Dean Betz #🟦May 11, 2023
Randahl Fink

Imagine a country on the way to a presidential election.

Presidential candidate A is criticized for lying constantly, trying to overturn the last election, stealing top secret documents from government, being involved in financial fraud, and having sexually abused a woman.

Presidential candidate B is criticized for being 4 years older than candidate A.

Then imagine, that this presidential election is a toss-up, because candidate A is really entertaining to watch on tv.

This is where we are.

May 11, 2023 at 2:59pmIvory for iOS
Show threadCosetteMay 11, 2023
@randahl We saw this in 2016. Hillary Clinton was one of the most experienced Presidential candidates in US history, and the bar was incredibly high for her while there was none for Trump.
Show threadJorge StolfiMay 11, 2023

@cosettepaneque @randahl

Was she? I remember her only for the huge blunder of letting the embassy cables be distributed to junior analysts like Manning all over the world, and then trying to shift the blame to Assange.

The Dem Party chose her because of internal party politics. Not because of her qualifications as future President, or her appeal to voters.

Show threadPatMay 11, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl She was well qualified as President in several ways: foreign affairs (as Secty of State), legislative branch (as Senator from NY), legal system (lawyer), unique backstage view as First Lady. Dem Party internal politics notwithstanding, she won the popular vote by almost 2.8 million votes. She appealed to more voters by a wide margin.
Show threadPusher Of Pixels (old account)May 11, 2023

@JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl Hillary definitely benefited *heavily* from internal party shenanigans.

AND she was the singularly most qualified POTUS candidate in history.

Both things can be true.

She also had historically high negative opinions by voters thanks to 30 *years* of right wing smear campaigns.

She also clearly beat Trump in popularity by every measure. Only a racist created system of the Electoral College that lets *land* pick winners stopped her.

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@pixelpusher220 @JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl She had really high approval ratings before she announced despite all the BS.
Show threadPusher Of Pixels (old account)May 12, 2023
@Pineywoozle @JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl and *really* high negatives. You can have both at the same time especially across different polls.
Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@pixelpusher220 @JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl Yeah, negatives they pushed, but yeah.
Show threadErik HaugenMay 12, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl yeah, definitely not because of appeal, she was a singularly uncharismatic candidate. I mean that is a stupid reason not to vote for her, just sayin'.
Show threadJorge StolfiMay 12, 2023

@ech @cosettepaneque @randahl

Considering that there were tens of millions of diehard voters on either side, surely there were many millions in the middle of the spectrum, who ended up voting for Trump, or stayed home, just because of that "feature".

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @ech @cosettepaneque @randahl That “feature” was a feature of how the media selectively portrayed her.
Show threadJorge StolfiMay 12, 2023

@Pineywoozle @ech @cosettepaneque @randahl

Was it really? I haven't seen her shine in public speeches or interviews ever -- during, before, or after the campaign.

What were her accomplishments as a State Secretary? One that I recall (besides that blunder of leaking the super-confidential embassy "cables") was her order to the ambassadors to try to collect fingerprints and DNA of foreign leaders in the respective countries. That is, act like spies -- which is totally taboo for ambassadors.

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @ech @cosettepaneque @randahl Yes it was. You don’t like her. That’s a you issue. I’ve seen her shine and so have the 3 million more voters than tRump that also gave her the popular vote despite the medias best effort.
Show threadErik HaugenMay 12, 2023

@Pineywoozle @JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl

You might be right about Jorge, but to the broader point can you link to a speech where she shined in this way? Something inspiring and charismatic? Something that gets people riled up, like the way Trump was getting everyone fired up with his outlandish nonsense?

I mean just read the abstract here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/psq.12490 – this makes the point that as a leader of the then-current regime she was constrained, but still I think a better politician (Palin, Michelle or Barak Obama, Bill, etc) could have overcome that hurdle much better, all else being equal.

FWIW I think Trump lost in 2020 for a somewhat similar reason: during covid he lacked the sort of inspiring, uniting, calming leadership that is helpful during a crisis. (Contrast with Bush after 9/11, who absolutely nailed it.)

(I can't imagine a stupider level of discourse than cheap puns where you corrupt the name of something to tear it down, like writing "DemocRAT" or "REPUGlicans" or whatever. Gah. It's like the trash comment threads on yahoo news from 2003 or something.)

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@ech @JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl All things could never be equal. The media played on 30 years of lies & she still won the popular vote by millions and lost almost no voters from the primary. That is a statistical anomaly & it’s because we do find her compelling I found her debate speaches inspiring, accurately describing what a disaster tRump would be & so did millions even when the MSM did their same negative dance after.
Show threadCosetteMay 13, 2023
@Pineywoozle @ech @JorgeStolfi @randahl I must agree with Piney. I've been a fan of HRC since I was a teenager in the 1990s, and I always found her inspiring. Perhaps this is a gendered issue. Many women may have been moved by HRC the way many POC were by Obama. No one could genuinely argue that Obama is not charismatic. My point here is not to compare his charisma to hers; it's about what they represented to many people. There was much sadness and anger among women when she lost.
Show threadJorge StolfiMay 13, 2023

@Pineywoozle @ech @cosettepaneque @randahl

Again, of course I would have voted for her rather than Trump. That is not the point.

Show threadCosetteMay 13, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @Pineywoozle @ech @randahl Isn't it? This conversation began because Randahl pointed out that this presidential election is a toss-up, which it should not be. When I said the same thing happened in 2016, you went for HRC's qualifications. Here we are still on that. There was a ridiculously high bar for HRC, and there has never been a bar for Trump. As he's "joked", he probably could shoot someone in Times Square and get elected, and we'd explain it by saying Biden is too old.
Show threadRandahl FinkMay 14, 2023

@cosettepaneque
In the US, Trump policies allowed covid19 to kill 341 people per 100,000.

Now compare that to

Denmark: 143
Norway: 94
Finland 162

And voters who have lost their loved ones STILL want Trump reelected. Mind blowing.

@JorgeStolfi @Pineywoozle @ech

Show threadSaanichGuy 🇨🇦🇨🇦May 14, 2023
@Pineywoozle @ech @cosettepaneque @randahl @JorgeStolfi It is easy!
COVID was a hoax so the deaths were just unfortunate. Otherwise, their belief structure falls apart.
#trumpisacriminal
Show threadResunaMay 14, 2023
@randahl @cosettepaneque @JorgeStolfi @Pineywoozle @ech It's the trolley problem except that on the other path nobody gets run over but you have to occasionally wear a mask.
Show threadThe DoctorMay 14, 2023
@randahl @cosettepaneque @JorgeStolfi @Pineywoozle That's one of the reasons they love him. Getting inheritances a few years early is a small price to pay for a bunch of people they don't know but are kinds of people they despise dying.
Show threadJorge StolfiMay 14, 2023

@drwho @randahl @cosettepaneque @Pineywoozle

😂

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 13, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @ech @cosettepaneque @randahl The point was you said she wasn’t charismatic and millions of people disagreed with you. They disagreed with you even over the bull horn of lies & negatively from the media, the bull horn of negativity well past the primary from Bernie’s bunch, the bull horn of negativity right before the election from Comey. We still disagree with you, & we still know how much America lost. You bought the lies, that’s a you thing.
Show threadJorge StolfiMay 14, 2023

@Pineywoozle @ech @cosettepaneque @randahl

Sure, sure, millions loved her. Millions didn't like her much but disliked Trump more.

But not enough millions...

You blame "Bernie's bunch" for "negativity". But it is the other way around: they disliked her because she was too tepid on anything really progressive.

Show threadErik HaugenMay 12, 2023

@JorgeStolfi @Pineywoozle @cosettepaneque @randahl ok, if you don't like the DNA thing, then you *really* aren't going to like Trump, so that doesn't really explain why she lost. Like, his whole brand is about throwing out norms that get in the way of results.

And the "it" here is charm/political skill/charisma, not accomplishments.

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@ech @JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl No she wasn’t. She was painted that way by the press. If she had gotten the type of coverage they gave tRump or Bernie & if they had been reported on accurately she would have won hands down.
Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl She won the popular vote by millions and only lost by 84k ish votes over 3 states. Stop lying about her. Also pre announcement her approval ratings were thru the roof. She lost and even then just barely because of 3 factors. The Media, the Progs & Ru propaganda. Comey didn’t help but she would have survived even his 11th hour sabotage if the MSM had done it’s job.
Show threadJorge StolfiMay 12, 2023

@Pineywoozle @cosettepaneque @randahl

Yes, yes, sure -- but she lost!

By "Progs" you mean the progressive voters? Or the (few) progressive members of Congress?

Show thread@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNoteMay 12, 2023
@JorgeStolfi @cosettepaneque @randahl Congress doesn’t decide who wins the election. So yes the more than 1 in 10 of those who voted in the primaries for the very “gets nothing done but talk” cough cough “progressive” Sanders that then ended up voting for the Republican in the general election had an affect. Egged on by Sanders surrogates who publically urged non voting or voting for anyone but Hill, while Sanders did nothing to stop that effort to discourage votes
Show threadDavidSE11 🏳️‍🌈May 11, 2023
@randahl it’s bizarre isn’t it. Candidate A really should be in prison
Show threadRandahl FinkMay 11, 2023
@DavidSE11 Should be? Will be.
Show threadDavidSE11 🏳️‍🌈May 11, 2023
@randahl fingers crossed 🤞
Show threadJESSICA BMay 11, 2023
@randahl too real!
Show threadGATEKEEPERMay 11, 2023
@randahl
It's weird that media loves to post Jeff Bezos and Rupert's polls and not one democrat is asked who they want other than Biden..50% huh?
Show threadGood-Luck BearMay 11, 2023
@TheQuinbox @randahl it's like a moviee only not so entertaining now that it's real life
Show threadEnne is at [email protected]May 11, 2023
@randahl This!
How can someone like that be a candidate to begin with?! 🤦
It doesn't really make sense to entrust someone with an entire country if they've commited crimes before.
After all, one would probably not even consider hiring, let alone actually hire, a housesitter who has proven themself untrustworthy, but it's fine for an untrustworthy person to run the whole show? 😕
The real question is how come we don't have better candidates? I refuse to believe those two are the only options we have.
Show threadCaryn has movedMay 12, 2023
@randahl Yeah - it's absolutely mind-boggling.
Show threadEdgeoforever 🔆May 12, 2023
@randahl minus the toss up part which is pure gaslighting. But we need to work as if it were true.
Show threadDamnKimberleeMay 12, 2023
@randahl wait!! Now-think about who owns the cable network where most Americans get their “news.” Rupert Murdoch also owns the Bible and most Christian publishing. So when the message is so skewed--look to the messenger.
Show threadBenderIsGreat34May 12, 2023
@randahl on the “Collapse of Rome” gauge where do you think the US is right now?
Show threadKevin SchwarzMay 14, 2023
@randahl This information needs ti be shared widely