My camera shoots fascists

You're on a very promising first date and find out that your chosen restaurant only provides menus, ordering, and payment via scanning a QR code with your phone. No cash accepted.

Your date politely says this is a discriminatory practice and a bad #privacy and #DataSecurity situation. You:

(Hey, not to grovel for boosts, but I'd love it if this got wide exposure.)

Wholeheartedly agree because fuck surveillance
68.9%
Didn't know it was a problem, but open to learn.
21.2%
Grudgingly go along, but no second date, dweeb.
7%
Think your date is a weirdo and leave.
2.8%
Poll ended at .
Apr 28, 2023 at 3:43amWeb
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

This has actually happened twice now. Both times my dates were polite about it, but I think there was a pretty hard silent eye roll and a sense that "this isn't going to work."

The Bay Area is really bad for this. A number of my favorite places are now closed off to me because I won't scan their fucking QR code.

If you're unsure why requiring a smart phone linked to a credit card is discriminatory and bad privacy practice, just do a little Internet searching.

Also, next time you're asked, tell them you only have cash and walk out.

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023
I'm glad the last two options are getting a little bit of response, or I wouldn't really believe the results. I also know that on mastodon the first and second options are going to go pretty hard. Which is also why I like it here 😆
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

Let's take this scenario one wee step further:

You go into the restaurant, scan the QR code (which sucks up a bunch of data about you right then), scan the menu (more data "sluuurrrrp"), order (ditto) and pay (sluurrrrp).

If you're cool with all that, then maybe your are also cool with the security cameras connecting your QR code (with your name and a ton of other data about you) with your face, your gait, your behavior and your date's facial scan and their behavior during the date and sending all of this to some anonymous data broker(s) to do with as they please?

Or would that be going too far? How do you know they're not doing this already? (I mean, they probably aren't...yet...in most places...yet.)

So, how far is too far for you? Maybe we should just stop this shit in its tracks and roll it the fuck back? Or nah?

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023
I'm going to bed. Will be amused to see what happens by morning, since I see this is drifting into other time zones.
Show threadDec [{()}]Apr 28, 2023

@Mikal
I recall a @dnalounge blog post (from only 11 years ago) about a company with a venue surveillance system that was planning to do Creeping As A Service, possibly with facial recognition technology.

Have you heard of this "hot new startup venture" SceneTap?
https://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2012/05/16.html

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@dec23k @dnalounge

CaaS: "Creeping as a Service" is way too accurate. *screams*

I think (?) that some large chain stores ID you via Bluetooth signals when you enter the place and then track your movements through the store, watching what you look at, what you pick up and put down, and other behavior, then link that to your loyalty card. They also have that data linked to your face, body, gait, etc. that they can then combine with all the other data they scrape from every scummy data broker... Yeah, no thanks.

If this isn't actually happening yet, I do know it's been repeatedly proposed for years. And, of course, you're probably not told about any of this when you enter the store. (I put my phone in airplane mode if I am in a place that I suspect might do this and never use loyalty cards.)

Show threadDec [{()}]Apr 30, 2023

@Mikal
I just put in some search engine effort, and found the @dnalounge blog post. It's from only 11 years ago. For some reason I thought it was older than that.

Have you heard of this "hot new startup venture" SceneTap?
https://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2012/05/16.html

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 30, 2023

@dec23k @dnalounge

OMFG that is as techbro douchy-among-douchebros as douchebro gets.

But that was rookie stuff! Here's a good NYT story from 2019 about how stores track us via our phones. It's gotten much, much more pervasive and accurate. TL;DR: use airplane mode or turn the thing off whenever entering large stores.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190614225158/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html

"In 2015, Facebook began shipping free Facebook Bluetooth beacons to businesses for location marketing inside the Facebook app. Leaked documents show that Facebook worried that users would “freak out” and spread “negative memes” about the program."

Read that again: even Zuckerberg recognizes that people do not fucking want to be tracked and our behavior monitored and analyzed by creepy bots 24/7. This makes me wonder about people who defend this behavior. Those are the real creeps, IMO.

Opinion | In Stores, Secret Bluetooth Surveillance Tracks Your Every Move

As you shop, “beacons” are watching you, using hidden technology in your phone.

Show threadTom RitchfordApr 28, 2023

@Mikal Dating tip: things will go badly if your "Them" and their "Them" don't overlap almost completely. (Your Them in this case includes "the predatory surveillance state", which the date trusts...)

Sadly, we all have a Them these days. Objectively, some of these Thems should be on everyone's Them list, because They are destroying everyone's future for everyone, but objectivity does not rule in a post-truth world.

Show threadTom RitchfordApr 28, 2023

@Mikal I mean, this is a really good way of weeding out a lot of undesirable people who you wouldn't want to date.

I have never even one time used the QR code, simply out of a sense of noncompliance. I gave up significant privacy when I bought a conventional cell phone, but let's not make it easy on them, eh?

If your date responds badly to your refusal to give up even more data, it is likely that you have more fundamental philosophical differences too.

Show threadRufus J. CooterApr 28, 2023
@Mikal Heck, my VPN for work made me scan a QR code to register my phone as my 2FA device & I made a big stink
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023
@RufusJCooter
GOOD! hee hee. I made a (little) stink recently with my bank when they *finally* implemented 2FA but made us use Authy, which requires giving Authy/Twillio a phone number. I pointed out to them that Twillio was breached last fall and Authy login credentials were compromised. Why do I need to give yet another company my phone number and email when, for example, Google Authenticator can operate as on-device authentication just fine and send virtually no data to them (assuming you don't activate their new cloud option)?
Show threadWandaApr 28, 2023
@Mikal None of the above. I hate those things because they’re a sign of bad service eating in. (Delivery’s a different story.) I care about privacy, but every debit and credit card transaction is tracked, not just QR codes. So: complain, eat, a little wary re second date
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023
@itswanda
For "lifestyle" things like food, entertainment, booze, etc., I almost always use cash. Just because something is tracked, doesn't mean it's OK and doesn't mean we should go along with it. Also, see: "discriminatory".
Like I said, if you're unsure why this is discriminatory, look it up.
Show threadEilonwy of LlyrApr 28, 2023
@Mikal I've only been to one place where this happened - at the airport at Dallas Love Field. It was extremely disconcerting and I do think it is discriminatory.
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@Eilonwyofllyr
It's becoming increasingly common in the bay area especially.

Edit to add that if I had a short turnaround between flights and needed to eat and this was all there was, I'd just do it and get myself fed. I'm not going to go hungry over it, but when there is no rush, I feel like it's something that needs to be pushed back against.

Show threadJoe ❌👑Apr 28, 2023
@Mikal If it is "your chosen restaurant" and this issue is important to you, you should have done your research in advance so you wouldn't wind up getting in an embarrassing situation with your date. Call them up and say you want to be sure you can have a real menu and pay in cash if that is what you prefer.
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@not2b
The last time I walked out of a restaurant over this was Ensarro, an Ethiopian place that I *really* like in Oakland. I had been going there for years. Then one day I went there and they wouldn't take cash anymore. Another time, date picked a place because it was dog friendly. (Dog friendly restaurants are a thing, as it turns out.) She humored me and we went somewhere else.

The problem with what you're saying is that it is putting the burden of basic privacy protection on me. It's like saying if you don't like air pollution you should wear an N95 everywhere. I'm saying air quality needs to be regulated as a public good. Privacy should also be seen as a public good. If more people understood this and refused to go along with this pervasive data vacuuming, there would be a social and economic cost for restaurants or other institutions.

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@not2b
I think what you're saying is the equivalent of finding out before hand if a restaurant is organic, fair trade, keto and vegan before going there. That would be a reasonable thing to call ahead about if you have such specific dietary needs.

But there are two things wrong with that, besides the one I listed above. First is that if you've been going to a restaurant for years and it's organic vegan keto fair trade, it's reasonable to assume that it still is. You shouldn't have to call every time to confirm that.

The second is that privacy and data security are much broader and should just universally apply. It's perfectly logical for restaurants to cater to certain dietary preferences. But who ever heard of "previously friendly menus" as a dietary choice?

Or, maybe it will become a thing.

Show threadJoe ❌👑Apr 28, 2023
@Mikal You mention N95, a lot of places switched to QR and cards only as a Covid prevention measure, and now that no one is masking immune compromised people can't go out. So life can suck in other ways. Maybe places need to do something about air filtering to cut down on the airborne viruses.
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@not2b
Oh, every place needs air filtration/ventilation for sure.

Most places say they went to "contactless" payments to avoid Covid, when we knew by mid-2020 that surface transmission was not a thing, that it was airborne. But to this day, that stupid excuse is still given for all sorts of dumb behaviors, requiring mobile-only payments being just one.

Show threadJulie SqveakarooApr 28, 2023

@Mikal

I understand the concept of menus via QR codes, but I do not at all like it.

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@JulieSqveakaroo

I don't even understand it! It's so much easier to read a large-type menu where you can easily scan across the entire thing, compared to peering at your phone and swiping up and down.

Show threadMercurius GoldsteinApr 28, 2023
@Mikal
Nice percentage
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@MercG

It's been hanging there or pretty close from the start. It's a sign.

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023
@MercG 400+ responses later it's still there.
Show threadUmm Ismael MuslimahApr 28, 2023

@Mikal Between the first & second choice. I get why it's an issue & I prefer to use cash myself, but I wouldn't make a scene over it either. A lot depends on how they treated the staff during this.

I would go to a different place with them & watch them closely. It may or may not be a red flag.

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@Ummismaelsf

I am the one with the security concerns.

Show threadUmm Ismael MuslimahApr 28, 2023
@Mikal That's cool. I have never seen a restaurant do this. Is it common where you live?
Were you actually on a date?
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@Ummismaelsf

Yes, common in the Bay Area (where I spend a lot of time but live outside of). I'd imagine it's more common in techy cities than small town diners. It happened on dates with two separate people. (Neither was a first date, though.)

Show threadUmm Ismael MuslimahApr 28, 2023
@Mikal If either walked out or refused another date, that's unfortunate.
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023
@Ummismaelsf
No, they were good sports about it. I actually felt a little like I was being annoying, which of course you don't want to do with someone new. Oh well.
Show threadcreohn 💥Apr 28, 2023
@Mikal it’s quite likely that I am the one who states the no-cash privacy issue in the first place ; )
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023
@creohn
😍
Judging by the poll, you're not the only one.
Show threadKasey Smith Apr 28, 2023
@Mikal This is a first date, right? I'd consider that an orange flag. I have so many hacker friends and friends in infosec that this type of concern is pretty normal. HOWEVER, I've also lost some dear friends to paranoia around gangstalking and the FBI reading their thoughts with nanobots. So I'd probably go along with your data security boundaries but try to suss out which flavor of cautious you are.
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@ihazrabies
Oh, that too! I've also lost friends to that sort of paranoia. Thing is, it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference between informed resistance to pervasive data mining and "the Lizard People are tracking us with nanobots" people. Ironically, the latter bunch usually have all the wrong concerns, so they act in a way that protects them from "nanobots" but leaves them wide open to creepy data miners and the usual law enforcement.

Living in Humboldt weed culture for decades, I saw this all the time. People who think they're being all Secret Squirrel by using burner phones to do large weed deals, not realizing that the cell tower triangulation data basically maps their life and makes it easy to figure out who they are, where they sleep, where their big indoor grow operation is and where they meet their buyer once a week. *facepalm*

(FTR technically these were both second dates, though we hadn't really ever talked about this sort of thing.)

Show threadKasey Smith Apr 28, 2023
@Mikal ooooohhhhhh I bet they use their burner on their home WiFi too. 😂
Show threadTheStrawberryOverkill Apr 28, 2023
@Mikal hehe, honestly, this would have made the evening for my so and me, we would have had a subject to rant and nerd out over XD (obviously I chose wholeheartedly agree ^^)
Show threadCarstenApr 28, 2023
@Mikal I think Mastodon is a biased on this type of topic.
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 28, 2023

@cblte
Oh, absolutely. I even mentioned that somewhere in the thread. Especially since it hit the infosec community (which was my intention).

I also bet that the majority of people who might see this post have never though about it, so it gives people something to consider instead of just blindly going along with every new privacy intrusion.

Show threadgs17Apr 28, 2023
@Mikal What about "think your date is a weirdo (but the same kind of weirdo as yourself) and leave (together)"?
Show threadelmApr 28, 2023

@Mikal i'd offer a compromise of using my phone instead and see how that goes

i might agree with you on that being a threat, but either it's not a part of my threat model or i think individual boycotts of places like that aren't effective (or some third thing)

and even if i didn't know before but felt convinced by your arguments, i'd still be hesitant to make a whole lifestyle change based on a first date

hence, offer a compromise and see if we can get along