stux⚡️20 years of pickup truck design progress in one photo
Oh yeah…
Nafnlaus 🇮🇸 🇺🇦@stux Pickup trucks are great vehicles... for doing what they were actually designed to do (haul cargo, tools, etc for work, drive on rough terrain, etc).
Buying them as urban cruisers is beyond ridiculous. I mean, do these people hate having good visibility and love having difficulty parking?
Ton Chrysoprase@nafnlaus @stux Pickups weren't designed to do any of these things and they aren't good for any of them, except very narrow applications of hauling dirty bulk cargo on rough terrain for longer distances. A van is vastly superior for anything outside of farming use and a tractor beats a pickup truck for that, except for longer distances. They where a very niche vehicle before they became a way to avoid emissions standards.
@TonChryso @stux Um, yes, they were, and yes, they are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_truck#History
Vans do not typically have the suspension needed for work in the countryside or at construction sites, only quite large vans are long enough for lumber, and you can't haul oversized loads in one or vertically load them
Vans are designed for moving goods on roads to and from stores, factories, etc.
Trust me, I used to own a pickup truck, used for *actual* countryside work. They're needed, & vans do NOT substitute
@TonChryso @stux Try donig this with a van (this was my truck, when I was developing a research garden). Don't forget to include driving said van across undeveloped terrain to the destination.
@TonChryso @stux Try this with a van (was hauling parts for my water system for my house)
@TonChryso @stux A Unimog is expensive overkill for most people, poor maneuverability, less fuel efficient, lower speed, difficult to park, etc. A tractor doesn't have a bed and can't drive at speed on a highway for hauling goods between destinations.
Your "solutions" are nonsense. Which is why businesses buy primarily pickups for work in construction, industry, and in the countryside. Unimogs have a role and do that role well, but it's a *minority* role. Vans have a large, VERY different role.
@nafnlaus @stux Dude.., as I was saying, there are very niche uses for pickups that are pretty much identical to that of Unimogs and you can rent either for those applications, or buy one if you really need them a lot. It's just not something that applies for a lot of people. If you need to do farm work, a tractor with a trailer is a better solution, if you work on a construction site, get a van platform with a bed. If you really want a pickup, get a pickup.
@TonChryso @stux So people should just gladly choose to pay more, have worse maneuverability, worse fuel efficiency, lower speed, more difficulty parking, and get a truck driver's license, so they can drive a Unimog instead of a pickup in order to make Ton Chrysoprase happy?
Well, this conversation has reached its absurd conclusion.
@nafnlaus @stux Well, except for the drivers license, people are doing all of these things already with a pickup truck, so I'm not sure what your point is. I never said anybody should get a Unimog, quite the contrary. But since you seem to care about cargo space and getting through rough terrain, they seem to be the superior option for both.
@TonChryso @stux Try driving over this in a van.
I'm not sure how many different ways I could possibly point out how absurd your notion of "vans substitute for pickups" is. It's practically endless.
They're *entirely* different roles.
@nafnlaus @stux Again, see below. There's a bit of a language issue translating a non-US concept of light trucks to pickups. Pretty much every major market has van-based platforms or dedicated light truck platforms that aren't a car substitute with better cargo space and more flexible beds, etc. for use on construction sites.
bhtooefr@nafnlaus @TonChryso @stux there's a lot of overlap, though, where pickups are chosen in North America for cultural reasons instead of practical reasons
even a lot of construction sites don't look like *that*, and a European van with the optional AWD system is more than enough for a lot of construction sites, the long suspension travel and large tires of a modern American full-size pickup are unnecessary
also, while dirty and extremely tall loads are easier to handle in a pickup, basically every other kind of load works better in a van - full-size vans tend to have longer cargo areas than any American pickup, lower load floors, and significantly improved load security/weather protection. (yes, you can get a cap or tonneau cover for a truck, but those are still less secure than van cargo areas, and provide less space.)
...and then, there's always the dropside pickup beds available on European and Japanese van platforms, which have *more* load versatility than an American pickup, while using less road space and having significantly better outward visibility.
even a lot of construction sites don't look like *that*, and a European van with the optional AWD system is more than enough for a lot of construction sites, the long suspension travel and large tires of a modern American full-size pickup are unnecessary
also, while dirty and extremely tall loads are easier to handle in a pickup, basically every other kind of load works better in a van - full-size vans tend to have longer cargo areas than any American pickup, lower load floors, and significantly improved load security/weather protection. (yes, you can get a cap or tonneau cover for a truck, but those are still less secure than van cargo areas, and provide less space.)
...and then, there's always the dropside pickup beds available on European and Japanese van platforms, which have *more* load versatility than an American pickup, while using less road space and having significantly better outward visibility.
Kristoffer Lawson@nafnlaus @TonChryso @stux in most European countries vans are the number one vehicle even for construction and trade. Even on slightly rough terrain. Tools and equipment can be kept enclosed. On a quick road count, vans outnumber pickups here in Finland 30-1. Even in construction the need for higher ground clearance is relatively rare (unlike in Iceland where, yes, you need to cross rivers). Pickups have their uses, but as was pointed out, it’s niche.
@nafnlaus @TonChryso @stux even for jobs in rough terrain, you still see utility 4x4s in use. Unfortunately they are becoming very rare (perhaps due to regulation). Old Defenders and the like. Would like to see more of those vehicles as for many things they are more practical than pickups.
@Setok @TonChryso @stux We may be somewhat of an exception in Europe because... well, we're roughly tied with Australia for #3 / #4 least densely populated countries on Earth ;)
But even still, we have no semblance of the US's "trucks just for driving around the city, as a style statement" culture that the US has. Trucks exist here to do truck things.
@nafnlaus @TonChryso @stux if I lived in Iceland (would love to btw), I would totally have a proper 4x4 for driving on mountain roads. But yeah, even there a pick-up for personal use wouldn’t be very practical. Just a pity there are absolute no utility EVs in Europe and only pickups vaguely on the horizon.