Fen C

There's a point in the corruption & degradation of a country's politics where nothing short of a #big_reset ("break glass in emergency") will do any good.

IMO the "U"K🇬🇧 is well beyond that point.

Broadly agree/disagree?

#uk #ukpolitics

Agree ✅
92.8%
Disagree ❌
7.2%
Poll ended at .
Mar 12, 2023 at 7:49pmWeb
Show threadFen CMar 19, 2023
👆 Poll Finished: 93% agree.👆
Show threadBodhipaksaMar 19, 2023
@fencoul I wish I'd seen this poll before it ended!
Show threadFen CMar 19, 2023

@bodhipaksa

👆 What would you have voted?

Show threadBodhipaksaMar 19, 2023
@fencoul “Some disassembly required.”
Show threadBlippy the Wonder Slug (MOVED)Mar 12, 2023
@fencoul
Show threadBen 🏳️‍🌈🇪🇺🇮🇪Mar 12, 2023
@fencoul something has got to give
Show threadAlisonW ♿🏳️‍🌈♾️Mar 12, 2023

@fencoul
I am really, truly, absolutely not a violent person, but I increasingly feel that the UK missed out by not (yet) having a revolution.

Madame la guillotine, s'il vous plaît.

Show threadAviva GaryMar 12, 2023
@AlisonW @fencoul The fact you could take the "UK" out of this post and replace it with a great many countries is something...
Show threadJuggling With EggsMar 12, 2023
@fencoul the biggest resets to UK society and politics have sadly come as a result of wars. I don’t want that. I just want people to wake up and remove the cancer that is the Tory party from this country. We must go further than Clem Attlee was brave enough to go after WW2...that means getting rid of private schools, House of Lords, FPTP and renationalising everything that they privatised. It is our only hope of survival and way to rebuild our country to become equal and resilient.
Show threadMorganaMar 12, 2023
@JugglingWithEggs @fencoul And rejoin the EU….
Show threadJuggling With EggsMar 12, 2023
@morganalafee @fencoul I would want to rejoin EU in a heartbeat, but the EU have to want us and be convinced we want to long term rejoin them. But I think this pretence from Labour that Brexit can be made to work has to be called out for the absolute rot that it is. Starmer will be damaged by clinging on to Tory fairytales.
Show threadMorganaMar 12, 2023
@JugglingWithEggs @fencoul Quite right…….but how to rejig the government approach so that the EU would be interested??
Show threadJuggling With EggsMar 12, 2023
@morganalafee @fencoul a change of political make up of the government will be the first step, but there will have to be an acknowledgement by the government and people that we probably won’t get back in on the terms we had before...so some humble pie. I think we also have to acknowledge the EU is a peace project and engage with present refugee crisis (Ukraine/Albania) but also show genuine compassionate and resourceful leadership on future climate refugee crisis.
Show threadmittfhMar 13, 2023

@JugglingWithEggs

Rejoining the EU would likely have to be done via a referendum with a higher "win" percentage than last time, especially as we'd be extremely unlikely to join on the same terms as before - possibly even having to sign up to the standard new member package including Eurozone and Schengen.

Potentially more feasible in the medium term is EEA/EFTA, essentially an evolution of the deal we had from 1960-1972 (as I very much doubt any government would have the patience to negotiate a Swiss deal, with dozens of separate bespoke agreements).

@morganalafee @fencoul

Show threadMorganaMar 13, 2023
@mittfh @JugglingWithEggs @fencoul If that is the logical way forward, then time to vote out the Tories and get the negotiations under way…..
Show threadCurtAdamsMar 13, 2023
@JugglingWithEggs @morganalafee @fencoul I see this as exercise of power: if Starmer gets a solid majority, he can rejoin the EU if the EU lets him, and will if it's politically beneficial. The point is to defuse opposition.
Show threadFen CMar 12, 2023

@JugglingWithEggs

👆 Mmm... I prefer dissolution of the #SmallerEnglishEmpire (aka. "U"K🇬🇧). Its very existence is 95% of our problem, IMO.

Show threadJuggling With EggsMar 12, 2023
@fencoul I’m not particularly wedded to the concept of the UK, I just use the term because it’s what we currently are...I’m equally fine with self determination and independence of nations and reunification of Ireland. It raises my blood pressure daily how the Tories treat everywhere outside of the M25, so I comprehend why other nations want to see the final death throes of English imperialism. It’s well and truly had its day.
Show threadmittfhMar 12, 2023

@JugglingWithEggs

Sadly, Labour are just as intent at maintaining the status quo, with Kier seemingly relying on focus groups to tell him which government policies are popular / unpopular in former "red wall" areas and tailoring his message to suit, believing the key to winning the next election is to appear as inoffensive as possible to disaffected former Conservative voters, then assume Labour's core vote will turn up whatever his policies (which may change as soon as he's elected - he's desperately attempting to be a populist, saying whatever he thinks is popular to get into power, then will ditch all that in a heartbeat if needed to retain the support of his MPs).

Meanwhile, the Lib Dems are still scarred by the Coalition Years, the Greens fail to make any impact outside Brighton, and the SNP / Plaid are unavailable in England. Some choice (!)

@fencoul

Show threadA Tattered ScrapbookMar 12, 2023
@fencoul 14th of July might be a good day for the project.
Show threadBen TaylorMar 13, 2023

@fencoul I'm wary of this sort of thing. What exactly do you mean? I'd be supportive of systematic reform but opposed to armed revolution, for example.

For me, what's needed is:

1. Removal of FPTP and replacement with some sensible PR system.
2. Implementation of a genuine independent anti-corruption watchdog for government with teeth.
3. Reform of political funding mechanisms
4. A minimalist written constitution to protect maybe 1-3 only so they can't be just trashed or ignored by the next Boris Johnson.
5. Maybe also reform of the Lords, though I actually think as a second chamber it doesn't do an awful job. You can't just replicate the first chamber in the creation of the second or there's no point, and since the Lords don't have to be re-elected there is some protection there against the short-termism and campaign finance shenanigans that plague elected chambers.
6. Home nations settlement I'm agnostic on. But if the UK is to remain united long-term then it will require a federal system eg. along the lines of the American protections against majoritarianism that gives Scotland and Wales (and England) an effective veto over UK-wide legislation. Northern Ireland theoretically needs the same but NI politics is so dysfunctional that I'm not sure that'll work.

Show threadPete Alex Harris🦡🕸️🌲/∞🪐∫Mar 13, 2023
@fencoul Agree with the proviso that the big reset is the electoral extinction of the Tory party, not any kind of strongman populism grabbing power in the name of reform.
Show threadPete / SyllopsiumMar 13, 2023

@fencoul Unfortunately the politicians aren't the problem, the population are. The things that would help the country are proportional representation (roundly rejected two referendums ago, yes AV isn't the same as STV but you have to take things step by step), re-joining Europe (*still* not supported in the near future even now by a majority, the best poll I've seen is a majority want it in several years), and properly funding health care, social care, education, transport, energy security, and food production.

This all ultimately boils down to everyone pays more tax, even if sleaze and inefficiency are magically removed from government.

In England a vaguely left wing Labour soundly lost the last election, & even the significantly more right wing Labour of present did not gain a substantial poll lead until the cost to living crisis. Corruption, deaths, & partygate had no real effect, money is all that matters to people.

Show threadStrings70🌱🌹Mar 13, 2023
@fencoul couldn’t agree more.
Show threadWilliamMar 14, 2023
@fencoul perhaps, but "great reset" is NOT the language you want here, it having already been coopted by a bunch of racist wingnuts.
Show threadTim RichardsMar 15, 2023
@fencoul @j_g_fitzgerald As long as the big reset is in the form of, say, voting reform rather than a fascist coup. :)
Show threadResistUKMar 19, 2023
@fencoul I don’t believe it’s beyond help so long as the politicians aren’t involved or at least a large proportion of the curren ones. And yes a big reset is needed.