Chris Trottier"We can't do anything about Google's indexing about the Fediverse, so we're giving them a pass."
No, you can do something about Google: build better Fediverse search.
By the way, the window of opportunity to build better Fediverse search than Google is closing every day.
Each day that Fediverse search is not built is another day Google extends its monopoly into the Fediverse.
What good is de-centralization if centralization occurs via search?
It's all fun and games until Google monetizes Fediverse search results.
Mike McCue@atomicpoet they already are.
@mmccue Exactly.
Jim Breeds@atomicpoet
That's the whole point of a search engine, isn't it? To show us stuff we're interested in for the price of an advert?
That's the whole point of a search engine, isn't it? To show us stuff we're interested in for the price of an advert?
@jimbreeds No, that's not the point of a search engine.
@atomicpoet
Well, that's why I use search engines.
Building a "better fediverse search" implies that the user is already in the fediverse, though, doesn't it? Surely we want search engines to bring people here for stuff they are interested in, and then they may stay?
Well, that's why I use search engines.
Building a "better fediverse search" implies that the user is already in the fediverse, though, doesn't it? Surely we want search engines to bring people here for stuff they are interested in, and then they may stay?
@jimbreeds That's one motivation.
Derek Powazek 🐐@atomicpoet it’s only a matter of time. It’s just like the time before the blog indexing began.
Bill Seitz@fraying @atomicpoet have any instances set robot exclusion rules? Has Google honored them?
Enrique Barcelli@atomicpoet not sure why we should care too much about this... 🤔
If they want to invest their money, time and resources in indexing the #Fediverse instead of us doing it (and spend the money, time and resources... for free!)... why shall we worry about it?
@kikobar Because centralization is awful, and so are tech monopolies.
This is why I care.
@atomicpoet @kikobar
My question is, how is a decentralized search going to solve this problem?
will continue indexing regardless.
My question is, how is a decentralized search going to solve this problem?
will continue indexing regardless.@atomicpoet @kikobar
in fact, they might even start using whatever fedi search the community builds to bolster their search results.
in fact, they might even start using whatever fedi search the community builds to bolster their search results.
thegardendude 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇵🇸@atomicpoet Pardon the probably-dumb question but…agreed on the need for Fediverse search, but how does it stop Google from indexing it? Isn’t Google just going to index stuff anyway? I’m not aware of a way to opt-out of it.
@thegardendude Nothing can stop Google indexing the Fediverse. That's the point.
vidak@atomicpoet @thegardendude not sure about this, but i think you can set something in your instance's admin features about whether or not you want it indexed by search engines
@vidak @atomicpoet I see a setting under preferences where I can opt out of search engine indexing for my personal account
@thegardendude @atomicpoet oh yeah, that seems promising
ocdtrekkie@atomicpoet Also like, the admins who claim they can't do anything about it don't have a robots.txt set. In a lot of cases, they are not trying.
Steve Lhomme@atomicpoet there's robots.txt for that
@robUx4 Yes, but certain people don't want any Fediverse search to exist. So they try really hard to make it not happen even though Google made it happen long, long ago.
SpaceLifeFormIn your profile preferences, you can attempt to stop search engines from indexing you.
But, I would not bet on it.
Fabio Manganiello@atomicpoet what many ignore is that most of the content on Fedi instance is publicly accessible, and anything with a public URL is, by definition, indexable.
All the backlash against searching the Fedi is pointless, when a Google custom search that includes the largest instances is just a few clicks away.
We can discuss how to build a search mechanism that offers admins and users control over who can search what, but there's no discussion about the need of a search engine.
The arguments of those who shout at everybody discussing a search for the Fedi are as good as those of the old man yelling at running trains.
@blacklight @atomicpoet exactly, we may build a search engine which better suits our needs and requirements, but not as to prevent Google from indexing the Fedi. The latter is enabled by design.
Viraptor@atomicpoet With the backlash against people who tried already... Who's going to try again? Most people that I've seen trying to improve the environment basically gave up.
@viraptor I will say this: tootfinder.ch has found its way on Fediblock yet, and that's a good thing.
Mikio Braun 🪼@atomicpoet last time I checked there were quite a few people who were opposed to fediverse search.
Regarding Google, they worked on realtime Twitter search for a while but axed that. I forgot why.
@atomicpoet ah apprently because Twitter shut down the firehose to Google. Well, what can you say. https://searchengineland.com/google-realtime-search-the-aftermath-of-the-google-twitter-split-84794
paulmwatson@atomicpoet who is going to build that and with what resources? I still use Google search over StackOverflow’s own search, Google over Twitter’s, Google over Wikipedia’s, Google over all news website search etc. it’s not an easy problem.
Maggieci democracy enjoyer@atomicpoet Just turned on Automated Post Deletion to 3 months <sigh>
@atomicpoet i have actually always been pro fediverse search
i don't think it has to be fucked like twitter, and i don't think that argument amounts to much, honestly. it's not hard to do a really, really amazing search engine. i ran someone else's on gemini for about 6 months and crawled over 300k pages, and it worked: discoverability _was_ transformed.
another argument: look at quote posts. uh, don't we have them now? mostly on misskey or pleroma/akkoma, but getting that feature hasn't caused the sky to fall in.
i don't think it has to be fucked like twitter, and i don't think that argument amounts to much, honestly. it's not hard to do a really, really amazing search engine. i ran someone else's on gemini for about 6 months and crawled over 300k pages, and it worked: discoverability _was_ transformed.
another argument: look at quote posts. uh, don't we have them now? mostly on misskey or pleroma/akkoma, but getting that feature hasn't caused the sky to fall in.