Abandoned America1/ Today it occurred to me that I am very grateful that the internet has been wonderful for "getting my work out there" but 25 years ago I could have produced 1/10 the work I have now and had a tenured position for it and rested on my laurels. But because content is constant and disposable now the need to create it never stops. And you never "get there", you just keep treading water until you sink beneath it.
2/ It's not that I'm ungrateful for the people who appreciate my work or the fact that I get to share it with them. I am, so much. But we replaced stability and security with internet attention and that doesn't pay bills. It doesn't get you health care. And it doesn't give you any sort of longevity with your work. When you stop posting the already shallow well dries up and you're forgotten. That's what being an Internet Presence is. It's pouring your work and life in a bottomless hole.
3/ Most people are supportive of people posting their merch or Patreon links but at the end of the day that absolutely unreliable income has replaced any semblance of safety for those of us in the arts. And some people hate us for the fact that we have to dance for our dollar while still wanting us to produce for their enjoyment. It's just messed up to think it never ends. You never "get there". You just live to hustle another day until you don't.
4/ There are so many creators struggling and people think if you have a solid follower count that automatically means you have security. It doesn't. If you're out there struggling to get by, whether you have 10 followers or 1,000,000, I see you and feel it too. This isn't the way it should be, and isn't how it always was. There are a lot of great things about the internet but constantly having to put things out there or starve is not one of them. Your work has value beyond that.
5/ The industry of "content creation" doesn't care about you. It doesn't care if you have a safe home or heat or electricity or access to a doctor. It's all about posting things that are interesting for the moment they exist on the cusp of a trend so they can make ad $$ or whatever and then vanish. It's a sick, garbage cycle. Don't confuse the things you need to get by for internet fame, which is nothing. Idk what the alternative is. I haven't found it either.
6/ F*** me, I should've just swallowed my bile and got into NFTs* from the start, regardless of whether they were a scam or not đ
* Look, I hate NFTs. That's not serious. Except I would be a lot better off if I didn't have a conscience then. You don't have to tell me NFTs are bad. If I had no morals I would have stayed on Twitter.
Hikarii@AbandonedAmerica Hey buddy, I know you're feeling a bit down about how your craft isn't being rewarding monetary-wise. And that's OK. It's reality. Even if you love and enjoy what you do, the fact that it's not enough to pay the bills or feed or pay to healthcare are also as true. And you know what? I'm sorry. I'm sorry that it's got you feeling so down that these destructive thoughts are getting to you. I hope once the frustrations are out you can feel a bit better with a fresh perspective.
Nick Bax@Hika @AbandonedAmerica ya know, I was with you until you went off on âdestructive thoughtsâ. I said a swear word when I read that.
It is not destructive to calmly explain the situation and itâs downfalls.
It feels like âoh youâll get over this, nothing will change, but continue on.â
@nbax @AbandonedAmerica You don't have to be with me. If it's interpreted that way, that's not my intention. I use it to refer to the spiral of negative thoughts one can have at times because I have recently felt like op. I was saying what I mean out of feeling like I'm in a relateable place. If I have used an incorrect word that doesn't mean what I thought it meant here, that is my mistake. There is no need to come strong when I am trying to state that I see where op is coming from.
@Hika @AbandonedAmerica I am sorry for coming in so strongly.
Thank you for clarifying.
@nbax @AbandonedAmerica No worries, it is completely OK. I appreciate your willingness to let me explain myself. Text makes it hard to get across feelings.
@AbandonedAmerica If it's any consolation I heard NFTs ended up costing artists hoping to join on the hype money train a lot more than they bargained for, so that isn't a solution for sure.
@Hika oh, of course. Artists were the fall guy for the scam. I knew that from the outset. I f*ing hate NFTs. But boy would a few extra thousand in my bank account be helpful right now.
Anthony Sorace@AbandonedAmerica FWIW, there are two artists I love who got heavy into NFTs and it both made their work less interesting (I have some half-formed hypothesis about that encouraging the âcontent farmâ mentality) and made it just personally distasteful. Iâbe stopped paying attention to their stuff, with some sadness. Iâve heard a lot of people say similar things. Itâs a bit harder to measure, but youâve saved a ton by not going the NFT route.
@AbandonedAmerica And I just bought a book.
@a thanks, I hope you enjoy it! And I unfollowed a ton of people doing NFTs. In retrospect I understand their desire to make money from what they do but God that system was gross and awful. It was basically having people in need of real income sell your wooden nickels. I hated it.
Olav@AbandonedAmerica @a I have semi-joked, "I'll sell you a NFT for $5K or an 8x10 for $50" because the whole thing is a joke. With one exception I know of, the NFT purchaser gets a jpeg and zero rights to it.
@AbandonedAmerica @a it's that blank wall thing I mentioned. Maybe folks are just conditioned to not see them. And yes the social media stream is ambivalent as they see art, but don't think of it out of that context (and if it's on the internet it's free!).
Maybe we need.to bill ourselves as retro, like vinyl :P
Granted, our house is salon-style and *mostly* my works and we acquire when we're able, but most folks wouldn't hang the bulk of my serious work
@AbandonedAmerica @a heh. It just came back in mind that (caveat I don't push to friends & my website eats ass,.and not in the good way) I'm pretty sure I could have had the entire cost of our holiday cards, to the tune of $200+ but not a print sale in 2022
~we started 5-6 years ago sending out holiday cards to some extent anyone that wants one. Like, 4x6 print quality signed free art. And we gotta keep doing it. A lot of people look forward to it, and some people it's the only card they'll get
Stygian Lizard@a @AbandonedAmerica I straight up unfollowed anyone who got into NFTs. So not only did they not get any coins from me through that venture, but they won't ever again.
I follow a musician who, in recognizing that songs are consumed individually on streaming platforms nowadays, decided to release a series of singles rather than an album. Albums are hard work & outdated. And the idea bombed, bc fans still want an album format even if the algorithm suggests otherwise.
@shadyspotlight @a I unfollowed a ton of NFT people. It was gross watching people shill so NFT platforms could take in gas fees. But, like your individual album artist, what's the alternative? I have no idea. I'm stumped.
Ali@AbandonedAmerica I used to be a content creator, back when it wasnât called âcontent creationâ. I published a daily webcomic for a few years. If Iâd understood the grind that would involve, maybe I wouldnât have started.
It taught me a lot of lessons that just keep giving (Just work, the ideas will come. Someone will love the things, even the ones you donât. You never know how a skill can become relevant in a completely different context.)
But it also ground me down, and eventually I couldnât do it any more. Still I had in my head that I could reboot it, or do something else with the characters to create content.
Now I do things like stare at a computer screen for six hours to try and work out why subtitles arenât working on a TV system on the other side of the country, and I enjoy my work. I walk away at the end of the day and donât spend my remaining time trying to work out how to feed that beast too.
I had fans & followers, and now I have a small group of friends instead, and I can support other people, and I have no regrets that I spent that time in my life doing that, and no regrets that Iâm not doing it now
@grissallia idk. Maybe that's where I'll wind up. But I feel like giving up on The Thing would kill me. It's what I am.
@AbandonedAmerica thatâs just it, there are folks like you creating wonderful things, who deserve to be supported in those endeavours
@grissallia you too, buddy. I'm sorry you had to go on to other stuff. The world would be better off if it hadn't forced you to.
@grissallia PS and I don't mean that's it's bad that you did. Not at all. But I wish we didn't have to make those decisions.
@AbandonedAmerica oh, it was bad, but it was external factors on top of the grind that just made it untenable.
I couldnât try and make jokes when I was working for a sociopath who was grinding me into paste.
Roadskater, Ph.D.@AbandonedAmerica I never could figure out crypto, and NFTs, wait, seriously, what? Sorry, no, I'll just gamble my ability to retire on the stock market.
@roadskater I mean, same thing I guess. Just gonna take your money one way or another đ
@AbandonedAmerica I'm just glad I bought a bunch of a certain tech stock when it hit a low in April 2003 and have held on ever since. So I have some FY money if I decide to punch out early (and I am 59 already).
@roadskater I should be so lucky. My relationship with money is that it all seems to be FM money
@AbandonedAmerica I hear that from friends with kids, esp. the friends with kids in college. One of my best friends is 62 and says he cannot afford to retire.
@roadskater retirement? Lol I'll be working til I'm in the ground and still owe after that. That's the new norm unfortunately
@AbandonedAmerica Post retirement, I may continue to "work" by finding some Github repos and obsessively post pull requests. Because, WTH else would I do with half of my day?
Joseph Zitt@AbandonedAmerica @roadskater I'll be able to retire in a few years, but only because I moved out of the US a few years ago and started living and working in a country with actual health care, pensions, etc.
@jzitt @roadskater See, I'd have done that but being a photographer/author is not one of those things that zips you through an immigration process
Sym@AbandonedAmerica Here's the depressing thing about NFTs: In theory, they should be great for artists as you can set them up to automatically pay out royalties to the creator whenever they are sold, forever.
The reality is that the successful collections worth millions are generally not made by artists, but programmers, and sold purely on the hype of holders getting rich quick.
No one cares about the art, and actual artists still finish last.
@symthetics yep, we were the public face for people that scammed the public for millions
buwel@AbandonedAmerica it sometimes sounds tempting, when my colleagues say "hey, there's a war going, you should invest in these weapons companies" or "look at this fund investing in water and food" but I can't with a good conscience and I applaud you for not going into the scam business.
Hello, yes, this is Gregly@AbandonedAmerica It is infuriating to realize how many ways I could make (or couldâve made) absolute *tons* of cash if I didnât have these pesky âmoralsâ or âconscienceâ getting in the way. Chicago is largely fintech, and if I sold my soul I could probably be making three times what I do now⌠but I canât stand the idea of making software that makes rich people richer.
@glindsey ditto. It annoys me to no end that shortcuts through shady practices produce such rewards
Mark Boszko@AbandonedAmerica Iâve often thought about how much money I could make if I were just a bit less ethical. Itâs kind of depressing. But I could sell SO much bullshit to audiophiles
@swizzlevixen yep. Believe me, I think about that sort of thing frequently and yet... it's not who I want to be.
Glyph@AbandonedAmerica FWIW, you really wouldnât have. There are a few outliers who made out like bandits (because they were, in fact, bandits) but the vast majority of artists who tried to get in on the grift got absolutely bodied by minting fees and then lost money again on the crash and are now deeply in the hole. Youâre much better off (in this case, anyway) having had integrity.
@glyph that's what I tell myself too. Besides, I'd have felt like a total jerk đ
Jake in the desert@AbandonedAmerica great thread. Feel all of it. I'm not someone who relies on creating stuff on here to live but many of my friends are and I see it- you're so right. It feels like insanity. More and more. I mean what's its endgame? Nobody knows because nobody's ever lived through this yet, and it's weird as hell. Not good weird.
@jake4480 yeah, it's like the virtual construct we all live in got a virus and is shaking itself apart
O@AbandonedAmerica this is why community versus popularity is important. I used to be a part of a community of creatives and we were really big on mutual aid. If things were hard for one of us, weâd help each other out if we could and if not weâd do shoutouts for each other, and weâd recommend each other for gigs, etc. I think a lot of the ills of social media have been in how exploitative it can beâby fans, companies, down to the algorithms. Fame is cheap and empty in the end.
@oriole yep. I never even wanted it. I just love the places, it's never been about *me* per se. But I still find myself struggling to get by after Covid screwed my whole business model over.
@AbandonedAmerica I hear you. I never wanted fame either. Just a way to create honestly and passionately, and that isnât always a marketable model. Do you have Ko-fi or anything? Again, not a stable solution but it gives fans a way to give even during hard times.
@oriole I do - I have a Patreon with a lot of awesome people, I have a donate link on my website, and I'm super grateful for people that chip in. It's just with a freelance job that went under I'm under a lot more pressure and I'm not into begging, so... Idk, guess I'll die? We'll see.
@AbandonedAmerica I understand. Most of my worst decisions were ones I made instead of asking for help, so just be aware that if you need it, once in a while itâs good to swallow your pride and just ask. Wishing you the best of luck and Iâm sending you hugs (if you like them.)
@oriole that's a good point. I have about the worst sense of worth you've ever met but I would rather die than ask for help nevertheless. I appreciate the well wishes and hugs. I'll take them both right now.
@AbandonedAmerica Well if I may challenge that thought pattern for a sec and just say you are worthy of love and support and if for no other reason than bc you need it right now. Itâs important to champion ourselves as we would our best friends. Eventually it sticks (although not without fail.) Iâm also healing right now. Hoping for the best for you and Iâm here if you ever need to vent. đ¤đ¤
@oriole that's very kind of you and it's funny, I tell my wife similar stuff (you wouldn't be that hard on a friend, etc) but I am a hypocrite when it comes to me. Will think more on that tomorrow. Hope your healing goes well and that I can figure out how to do a bit too â¤ď¸
G. Willow Wilson@AbandonedAmerica Amen to all of this. It's heartbreaking.
GamerTower@AbandonedAmerica how is this not how it always was?
@gamertower I mean, you could definitely make an argument that art has always been difficult but when we started replacing physical artwork with digital representations that really devalued it immensely.
@AbandonedAmerica There is still a market for physical art, and im not even talk about making the next Mona Lisa or some shit like that, just, go to a convention and sell some posters or something.
And even then that doesn't answer the question i made.
And even then that doesn't answer the question i made.