Parker MolloyThere seem to be a number of pundits insisting that anything short of putting trans people in camps is not "an attack on trans people's rights."
Please understand how ridiculous that sort of characterization is.
Yes, efforts to make it impossible for trans people to get ID cards that list their updated name and gender marker are attacks on trans rights.
Yes, efforts to force people to use restrooms that correspond to their original birth certificates are attacks on trans rights.
Yes, efforts to criminalize or restrict transition-related health care and insurance coverage are attacks on trans rights.
Because here's the thing:
I do not care if someone believes "trans women are women" or not. I really, truly don't. People can believe whatever they want to believe, and others can believe whatever they want to believe about that person.
Responding "Biological sex is real!" is not actually an argument. I'm not at all interested in having a dumb, meaningless debate about that.
Yes, trans people should be able to update their ID documents. "But it says 'sex' and I believe sex is..." Nope, again, I do not care. That is not an argument here.
This is about finding a way for all of us to coexist.
If you make it so my ID has to have "M" on it, then you're making it so every single time I'm carded or every single time I get a job, that I have to out myself as trans to total strangers.
That is an invasion of my privacy. I don't give a crap about what you believe, I shouldn't have to out myself to strangers in public. It's a humiliating, dehumanizing experience.
The same goes for restrooms.
I assure you, I do not want to be in a public restroom unless I absolutely have to use it and it's an emergency. I go out of my way to avoid them when possible and opt for single-occupancy options whenever available.
But when it comes down to it, if there are two options, it makes *much more sense* for me to use the women's room.
Going, "Well, Rowling can't POSSIBLY be transphobic because she says 'dress how you want, call yourself what you want'" just demonstrates that both she AND the person making the claim, are dodging the point.
Sorry, but yes, if you believe that I should be forced to put myself as trans whenever I show my ID and that I should be forced to use men's restrooms, YOU ARE TRANSPHOBIC.
I'm sympathetic to arguments about prisons and shelters, etc. I get that it can be complicated and the goal is to ensure the safety of *everyone*
You're not making a trans woman "safe" by putting her in a men's prison. You're not making a trans woman "safe" by throwing her to the curb outside a shelter. There has to be a way forward that doesn't amount to "Full ban!" vs "No rules"
And putting a trans woman in solitary confinement simply for being trans isn't okay, either, as that's it's own additional sort of punishment.
But I do get that these are sensitive topics. And there need to be calm, reasoned discussions.
But that's not what Rowling or others say. Rowling has made it clear that she doesn't want trans women (no matter what medical treatments they've had) to be allowed to use public restrooms. She has repeatedly pretended that her concern is "self-ID," but doesn't say what she thinks *would* be enough treatment to allow trans people to update their documents. That has nothing to do with "self-ID."
Until Rowling openly says what standard people need to meet in order to update their ID documents and be able to exist in the world without fear of being harassed and stalked in restrooms, it's safe to assume that she thinks that there's no standard any trans person could possibly meet.
Why? Because she is transphobic. You can fall all over yourselves to say, "What?! How is that discrimination?! They don't want to eliminate you! You can always just go through life as a man!" but a.) THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS, and b.) This is the same as the "What? How is it 'discriminating' against gay people? They can get married already! Just to the opposite sex like everyone else!" defenses of a few years back.
So when Jonathan Chait or Andrew Sullivan roll their eyes at trans people warning about our rights being attacked, please understand that their bar for "attack" is literally just not being forced into camps. Yet.
This, from @po8crg, is an important point. Rowling and Co. like to pretend that their concern is "self-ID," but it absolutely is not.
It's the same exact strategy that abortion opponents use when they start going, "Oh, so you think that someone should be able to decide when they're 9 months pregnant 'nah,' and abort a viable fetus!!?!"
They're not actually worried about the absurd hypothetical. Their goal is to ban all abortion.
Tl;dr My driver's license says "F," my birth certificate says "F," my passport says "F," and you'll have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Jofish5000@parkermolloy is that a UK thing? Guilty until proven innocent?
Jeffgodofbiscuits@parkermolloy I don’t know, I often get the sense that Rowling thinks an exception should be carved out for her…
Tom Magnanimous@parkermolloy when you have equal expertise in gender and law
Timo Grün@parkermolloy
Rowling, Musk, Bezos and others would tend to demonstrate that the human nervous system can only accommodate a certain level of wealth without going batshit crazy.
Rowling, Musk, Bezos and others would tend to demonstrate that the human nervous system can only accommodate a certain level of wealth without going batshit crazy.
Zac@parkermolloy We just got our son’s update birth certificate yesterday. A happy day for him.
Aphrodite (recharging)the “f” on my three passports, two citizenship records, birth records and trusted traveller card stands for “fuck off if you don’t respect my gender.”
the “m” on my transmasc friends’ credentials stands for “maybe you can fellate my massive phallus if you don’t respect my gender.”
the “x” on my intersex and enby friends’ credentials stands for “it’s a mystery why people who don’t respect my gender are so obsessed with my junk. i ain’t sleeping with pervs like that.”
the “f” on my three passports, two citizenship records, birth records and trusted traveller card stands for “fuck off if you don’t respect my gender.”
the “m” on my transmasc friends’ credentials stands for “maybe you can fellate my massive phallus if you don’t respect my gender.”
the “x” on my intersex and enby friends’ credentials stands for “it’s a mystery why people who don’t respect my gender are so obsessed with my junk. i ain’t sleeping with pervs like that.”
the “f” on my three passports, two citizenship records, birth records and trusted traveller card stands for “fuck off if you don’t respect my gender.”
the “m” on my transmasc friends’ credentials stands for “maybe you can fellate my massive phallus if you don’t respect my gender.”
the “x” on my intersex and enby friends’ credentials stands for “it’s a mystery why people who don’t respect my gender are so obsessed with my junk. i ain’t sleeping with pervs like that.”
Gary E. Walker@Aphrodite please don’t feel the need to stop doing this. 😀
getting more nationalities is very hard work since i lack commas in my bank account to just buy a few
A-Dub@parkermolloy @Aphrodite genius 😂😂
Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield@parkermolloy As someone who holds correct identification for my Gender (since 2001), my biggest fears are:
1) The UK government will rescind my identity (I think it incorrectly recorded my son’s passport the last time he got his renewed)
2) The US government (who I had to put myself to in order to get a green card and then citizenship) will do the same.
When my family emigrated to the US, both myself and my son had to carry documentation deadnaming us on the plane. It was… Humiliating.
@Aminorjourney Yeah, passport-renewal time is going to be scary
Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️⚧️♾️🇺🇦@parkermolloy @Aminorjourney My passport was due for renewal near the end of the Trump administration, and the way things were going I renewed it early. Not that that would stop them from invalidating it anyway…
Evelyn 
It's really a wild situation. There is no circumstance where I would use a men's restroom. None. I'm a woman, look like a woman, and would be deemed to be a woman by any standard that anyone could come up with to allow access to a restroom.
It's Just Jenn 🏳️⚧️@EvieAlways @parkermolloy @po8crg They want you to use the men's room because they want you to be hurt or worse. Because that's the only logical outcome of forcing that.
Litzz11@parkermolloy Can someone please point out that Andrew Sullivan is one of the loudest shouters about "cancel culture," yet the state of TN just passed a law that makes drag shows ILLEGAL so hundreds of performers are now out of work. And that's NOT cancel culture?
@Litzz11 @parkermolloy Sullivan has been one of the chattering classes most vocal opponents of anything that threatens the status quo for quite some time.
I just fail to understand what it is that is compelling folks like him to help propagate this fascist storyline.
Is it really that easy to push people like Sullivan into open fascism?
@lolzac @parkermolloy I remember he had a brief shining moment of liberal acceptance, I think it was back when W was president. How a gay man can be so blind to the intolerance other groups face is truly baffling.
@Litzz11 @parkermolloy Well he is a gay, white man. In my experience the only type of intolerance that they are against is intolerance against gay, white men. Oh and rich men. They don’t like that either.
Patty Kimura@Litzz11 @parkermolloy Andrew Sullivan is the less talented less rich less relevant white old gay Kanye.
Richard Gadsden@parkermolloy I've never encountered anyone talking about toilets who would allow any trans woman under any circumstances into the women's.
You see all the arguments about self-ID, but when you ask, there are no standards they'd accept.
Debbie Hayton is gc, has been using women's toilets with no issues for years... and when the other gc's found out, they went berserk at her.
@po8crg Yep! Their obsession with "self-ID" is a distraction from their belief that trans people shouldn't have any way to update documents or use restrooms.
@parkermolloy Because they obsessively share pre-transition photos of trans women with each other, they have terribly distorted ideas of what trans women are like - which doesn't help.
But they have some weird mystical idea of perfect sex categories and they hate trans people for breaking those categories.
Len Whitten@parkermolloy I’ve never understood the restroom argument. Women would prefer a trans man, presenting as male, with them in the restroom? Men prefer a trans woman presenting as female in theirs? Should we outlaw gay men in the men's bathroom?
It's such a dumb, specious point.
It just seems patently obvious that people would use the restroom which presents the least amount of friction to everyone.
Kevin@LenW @parkermolloy The core of their argument is "we don't want you people to exist, at least not in public." There's no reason or consistency to be found beyond that. Treat all "debates" with that in mind. It's not about fairness in sports, it's not about restrooms, it's not about gender markers on IDs, it's not about medical treatments, it's not about drag, it's about getting rid of us.
@KevinLikesMaps @LenW Yep. And the thing is that some of them will be like, "Well, if you *actually look like* the gener you say you are, then, fine, go use the bathroom; just don't make a big deal about it," seemingly oblivious to the fact that whether or not someone looks "like" a man or "like" a woman is pretty subjective.
@KevinLikesMaps @LenW And in saying that, what they're really saying is, "We want to make it against the law, but if you think people can't tell, go on and break the law, lol, good luck."
@KevinLikesMaps @LenW And what ALWAYS happens in these sorts of cases is that it ends up getting a lot of women who *aren't* trans getting harassed in restrooms because people think they are trans.
@parkermolloy @LenW And they say that as if I was making a big deal of it in the first place. I'm guessing that at some point in your life you've used men's rooms, so you know the deal - no looking, no talking, don't acknowledge anyone's existence. It works very well for any gender!
Energetic NovaHouse trans women with trans women in prisons… feels like an answer too obvious….
@Energetic_Nova Definitely the best option when available, for sure
@parkermolloy I feel like all the squawking about potential pregnancies in prison don’t make much sense because there’s plenty of women in prison who are infertile that trans women could be housed with. and I know way too many trans women with pretty non-functional… so long as they’re being given the amount of hormones they’re supposed to get
@parkermolloy but of course they’re not really thinking about that because they think the hormones should be taken away so you know
level 5 troon hazard@Energetic_Nova @parkermolloy prison pregnancies already happen... from the guards, rather then the other inmates
If you want to address SA in prisons, that is a far more pressing problem then the hypothetical crimes of hypothetical trannies
If you want to address SA in prisons, that is a far more pressing problem then the hypothetical crimes of hypothetical trannies
yeah I’m very aware that it is the prison guards and not any sort of transgender conspiracy. But if that was truly their worry they would just make sure the healthcare was better.
I’d prefer if they were housed in women’s prisons but I would settle for housed with people inbetween sexes.
Peter@parkermolloy I am regularly in awe of your self control.
My position in life presents others with far fewer & less impassioned subjects to attack me with, but when it's as absurd at your *daily* interactions, I struggle not to snap at folks.
You are an impressive human.
Dr JAnd yet those very real and proven safety concerns are so far down the list of priorities for them that they effectively never get mentioned. It says so much.
Daniel Dvorkin@parkermolloy Transphobes know quite well they’re actively making trans people unsafe by imposing their own ideas of sex and gender on everybody. That’s part of the appeal.
I guess there might be some people who have uncritically bought the “safety” argument but don’t actually want anyone to suffer, and maybe pointing out the lack of safety will change some of their minds. Not many, though, I suspect. 😐
FirefighterGeek 
@parkermolloy Arguing about safety in prisons and shelters pre-supposes that r*pe is an inherent and unavoidable risk in those places, which is abhorrent. That's not "shelter" is it? As to prisons, we are not (or should not be) sentencing someone to several years of sexual abuse, regardless of what identified or assigned gender they are. That's torture not incarceration. If you incarcerate someone you must be responsible for their safety.
william.maggostransphobic sounds malicious. aren't they most often ignorant? I think most people don't understand these concerns and while they have empathy for trans people like they do for black people being harassed/killed by cops, there is more effort they have to take to understand trans issues than most obvious racism. and people are lazy.